The Neocons & Nixon's Southern Strategy ( Pat Buchanan slams Kristol )

washingtondispatch ^ | 12/29/2002 | Pat Buchanan

[cgbg]

they are both very intelligent

I knew Bill Kristol very well in my college days. (I leave to your research to figure out which branch of the Kremlin we both attended ;-) )

Bill is very very smart. He is also very charming.

His big weakness is that he craves respect from the "powers that be" and he is willing to cave under their pressure.

Bill would always argue that he wnated to be around to fight another day. I always told him I thought that day would never come. :-(

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

Neoconservatives are the useful idiots of the liberal establishment.

Perhaps it is the reverse which is true: neocons are liberalism's fifth column within the conservative movement. They certainly have succeeded in pushing "conservatives" leftward on quite a few issues.

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

Kristol and Buchanan are absolutely useless to conservatives.

Perhaps, but for different reasons. The important thing to note, however, is that conservatives themselves are now absolutely useless to anyone.

[Afronaut]

Words of the year, 2002:

Useful Idiots

[jeremiah]

Your dislike of Pat is most likely honest, but the 11th commandment was broken by the Republican establishment before Mr. Buchanan bolted the party. Remember the articles by Safire alleging anti-Semitism? Dole publicly saying if Pat won the nomination, he wouldn't vote for him? Bennett and Kemp joining an unholy alliance in the papers, to call for non support for Buchanan if he won. Now realize, that if Pat would have won the nomination in 96, he would be running against Bubba. So you have several prominent Republicans breaking the 11th commandment, in 96. Of course, Pat is the traitor for deciding he wasn't needed in the party, unless of course as an usher. His voice was used, to say what the conservative wing wants to hear, but the annointed, like Dole or GW, would never allow to come to pass. Then when he gets uppity, he is kicked back to the curb.

In my opinion, conservatives in the Republican party, are used in exactly the same manner as Blacks are used in the Dem. The PTB, keep them around as tokens, to ease the bases concern.

[duckln]

Well, fine. What do you think of Pat's article, and
Kristols' rewriting?

[Jhoffa_]

Bill would always argue that he wnated to be around to fight another day.

Allot of good it does if you come back and lose yet again.

[gcruse]

I Believe in 2004 Republicans will gain the black vote and just for the reason you said. And we need to repeat the facts from now and until we are blue in the face.

You are already blue in the face, and blacks won't vote Repub in 2004.

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

Ignore the textbook ideological definitions; neo-conservative was originally a biographical designation; it applied to a small group of mostly Jewish ex-Troskyite or other ex-leftist intellectuals in NY City who moved "rightward" during the 1960's. Today it is applied more broadly to the younger generation of people who look to these original neo-cons for guidance and leadership.

Russell Kirk observed that what really motivated the neo-cons was not conservative principles or limited government or any kind of American identity, but rather identification with the State of Israel. That about sums them up. Their "rightward" shift happened because the left was losing its earlier affection for Israel, and becoming anti-American (which, in the context of contemporary politics, meant anti-Israeli, too). In reality the neo-cons have never understood or had any kind of instinctual sympathy for the traditions or ideals of American conservativism. They were quite happy with the left and with big government, until their interests dictacted a move "rightward". On many important issues, they are still instinctive Marxists. They will chose the big government option every time; anything which gives them a chance to lobby and politic for more power for themselves and their allies.

[gcruse]

When was Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment abolished?

When Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott told the House
Impeachment managers not to bring their crap into his chamber?

[duckln]

Who's Patsy? Why doesn't Pat have the right message this time?

Why the personnel 'Patsy' attack, does it mean you have nothing to say? Geeze!! !

[Jhoffa_]

They were quite happy with the left and with big government, until their interests dictacted a move "rightward". On many important issues, they are still instinctive Marxists. They will chose the big government option every time; anything which gives them a chance to lobby and politic for more power for themselves and their allies.

Now, this I can use.. I can think of many examples here.

Multitudes in fact.

[TLBSHOW]

and blacks won't vote Repub in 2004.

hummm, I have a feeling you will be eating those words in 22 months and a few days

[gcruse]

Louisiana wasn't a fluke.

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

I think the only person who ever obeyed Reagen's 11th Commandment, was Reagan himself.

People who slime Pat for leaving the Republican Party are hysterical and hypocritical; Pat tried playing by their rules and was spat on at every turn by the GOP hierarchy.

In several states they even kept his name off of the Presidential Primary ballots, solely on the authority of GOP bigwigs. They made it perfectly clear to Pat that he would never get a fair shake from within the GOP. They have no one to blame but themselves if Pat took them at their word, and chose to run outside the party instead.

To gain loyalty, you have to show loyalty, and that is something which the GOP leadership has never done; in fact, Reagan's presidency can now be seen as nothing more than a brief interruption between the rule of the usual GOP hierarchy and their pet establishment types. There is nothing they hate more than the idea that the GOP rank and file might actually prefer a real, genuinelly conservative candidate.

Reagan was the exception, not the rule.

[TLBSHOW]

I think the rats trolled the bowling alleys and cemeteries there for votes.

[duckln]

For Pat, it was abolished when he left the Republican party.

How so? He blasted the Bushes and the party through 2 election cycles.

[JMJ333]

I like Buchanan. He had an article last year that I thought should be read by every Catholic, so they understand they fight they are up against.

The Abolition of Christmas

Good stuff.

[Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy]

What evidence do you have of any significant shift in black voting patterns? I don't see any evidence of it. Even if Bush could swing another five percentage points of black voters his way, it's still not a very significant percentage of the total voting population. Swing five percantage points of white voters his way, on the other hand, and Bush will have a landslide. It's no accident that for the past 40 years politics has revolved around groups such as white, blue collar workers, "Reagan Democrats", "soccer moms", and the like. Because, these are the swing voters. Blacks and other minority groups were sewn up by the Democrats decades ago; their votes are not going to be changing in any significant degree. Look to the votes that are in play.

[JMJ333]

Sorry...one to many "they's" =)