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Never mind what history books say: the South won (GREELEY ALERT)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | December 27, 2002 | ANDREW GREELEY

Posted on 12/27/2002 10:10:58 AM PST by Chi-townChief

I don't see why there's so much trouble about poor Trent Lott. After all, the South won the Civil War--oops, the War Between the States--and they're entitled to enjoy their victory. It's their right to fly the Stars and Bars over the Georgia capital, to celebrate the ''Confederate Heritage,'' to speak at the racist, anti-Catholic Bob Jones University, to lecture to white supremacy groups, to venerate the Dixiecrat Party and its founder Strom Thurmond for his wisdom, to proclaim always their mantra of ''states' rights,'' to trim black voters off the polling lists.

Admittedly, racial segregation in the South isn't what it used to be. Blacks can ride anywhere on a bus that they want to, their kids can go to integrated schools, they can vote in elections, they can work at jobs formerly off-limits to them. They're still poor for the most part and not all that well-educated (in Mississippi no one is), but that's not the fault of white Southerners.

Does someone say that the Stars and Bars is the flag of a racist revolution to keep black people in slavery? Does someone argue that the ''Confederate Heritage'' is a heritage of racial oppression, rape and murder? The answer is simple: ''Hey, boys in blue, we whupped y'all fair and square. Y'all ain't nothing but bad losers.''

My ''damn Yankee'' prejudice is to say that ole Marse Abe made a mistake. He should have let the rebel states go. We didn't need them, and we'd be better off without them.

The South didn't win the war, you say? Who's running the country now? Texans (or pseudo-Texans) like Bush and Cheney and DeLay, and crackers like Trent Lott, and until recently carpetbaggers like Newt Gingrich. When was the last time a Yankee was elected president? In 1960, the only Northerner since Roosevelt. Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon don't count; Orange County is Confederate country.

Nixon was the one who had the brilliant idea of incorporating Strom's Dixiecrat Party into the GOP in his notorious ''Southern strategy.'' Most of the newspaper accounts of the turn of the Solid South from Democratic to Republican don't mention that the change was inspired by anger in the South at the Democratic support for civil rights and racial integration. The Democrats won the campaign but lost the war. Gettysburg was not the decisive battle of the war between the states. The 1968 and 1972 campaigns were. The ''reform'' wing of the Democratic Party threw out the unions and the Catholics and gave away the game to the Dixiecrat wing of the Republican Party. They've never figured out how to win against the descendants of Strom and Tricky Dicky.

I'm not saying that all Southerners are racist (there are a lot of racists in Yankee land too--most of them Republicans). Nor do I contend that all Republicans are racists. However, the current Republican near-majority has its origins in racism. Many of the present causes of Southern Republicans--the Stars and Bars, the Confederate Heritage, Bob Jones University--are clearly causes of the antebellum South.

I'm willing to accept the song ''Dixie,'' both because ole Marse Abe ordered it played for the big victory march in Washington when the war was over and because it was written by Bing Crosby, a notorious Yankee who never set foot in Dixie (actually by New Yorker Dan Emmet, whom Crosby portrayed in film).

However, if the Republicans really want to break free of the Old South and become once again the party of ole Marse Abe (which they clearly don't), then they have to do more than merely drop redneck bigots like Trent Lott. They must loudly disown Bob Jones University and the battle flag over the Georgia capital and the Confederate heritage, and Jeb Bush's elimination of black voters from Florida registration rolls.

I concede that the Dimmycrats (as Mr. Dooley called them) are not without faults of their own--most notably the anti-Catholicism that affects some of the leadership level, their enslavement to the teachers unions and their stand on some life issues. Yet, whatever their failings, they're not storming the Little Round Top at Gettysburg with the Stars and Bars waving and loud rebel yells.

History says that Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and the 20th Maine triumphed in that skirmish. A look at the Beltway today makes me wonder if they really did.


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To: schaketo
>>Four legs good. Two legs baaaaaddddd<<


Don't forget, some animals or more equal than others.
61 posted on 12/27/2002 12:36:56 PM PST by Missouri
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To: billbears
Anti-Southern attack ad ping.

I'm sure they take pride for their unbounded hatred.

62 posted on 12/27/2002 12:41:54 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: mrMJ
Several of my ancestors came to this country as "indentured servants". Yet very few today understand the similarities of serfdom, indentured service and slavery.
63 posted on 12/27/2002 12:43:22 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: Restorer
They were also not around by the time of TWBTS.

Actually they were. The legislature of the state of Illinois issued a resolution ( 91_SJ0062) recognizing such:

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois, at the time of its acceptance into the Union in 1818 and for a longtime thereafter, practiced de facto slavery masqueraded as "indentured servitude"; the census of 1840 enumerated slaves in Illinois in violation of the Ordinance of 1787, which outlawed slavery in the Northwest Territories; and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois passed the infamous and unjust Black Laws (1819), otherwise known as the Black Codes, which were a denial of human rights designed to cover up slavery and the slave trade within the borders of the State and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois supported the Black Codes for more than forty-six years until they were finally repealed; and

WHEREAS, In the State of Illinois the majority of Illinois citizens favored closing the State to African-American residents and withholding the right of citizenship from those African-American residents already living in the State; and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois passed dehumanizing laws stating that slaves were not persons, but property, and as property the ownership of enslaved Africans was to be fully protected by Illinois law; and

WHEREAS, For many years, Black people, free or otherwise, had no legal status as citizens in the State of Illinois...


64 posted on 12/27/2002 1:00:29 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: #3Fan
Yeah, it's interesting to speculate about historical what-ifs. There's a novelist by the name of Harry Turtledove who has made a career of writing alternative history (he also writes science fiction but that's not my bag).

He has a series of books (beginning with How Few Remain) that speculates on what the USA and the CSA would be like if the South had won its independence. He followed that with a series about World War I... with the US on the German side and the CSA on the British.

Turtledove is an incredible writer, he used to teach history at UCLA so he knows of what he speaks.
65 posted on 12/27/2002 1:01:58 PM PST by Maximum Leader
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To: #3Fan
I wasn't arguing, just making commentary.
66 posted on 12/27/2002 1:13:42 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: Maximum Leader
Yeah, it's interesting to speculate about historical what-ifs. There's a novelist by the name of Harry Turtledove who has made a career of writing alternative history (he also writes science fiction but that's not my bag). He has a series of books (beginning with How Few Remain) that speculates on what the USA and the CSA would be like if the South had won its independence. He followed that with a series about World War I... with the US on the German side and the CSA on the British.

I'm still not getting the possible link between Germany and the U.S. in WW1. Any effort by the British to use the weaklings Canada and the CSA against the U.S. after the Civil War would've failed by 1914. Canada is too sparsely populated and slavery would've kept the CSA in it's agricultural based economy for too long prohibiting the growth of industry, thereby rendering both unable to push it's weight around with the U.S. Plus, there is a sense of right and wrong that would've worked to keep the U.S. away from allying with the devious Germans. We had a very high percentage of German descended people in our populations in WW1 and WW2 and that didn't stop us from doing the right thing and defeating Germany.

Turtledove is an incredible writer, he used to teach history at UCLA so he knows of what he speaks.

I'll keep quiet about my bias against university professors for now. :^)

67 posted on 12/27/2002 1:22:04 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: DallasMike
I wasn't arguing, just making commentary.

Sorry. Figured you were a fringer.

68 posted on 12/27/2002 1:22:49 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: Chi-townChief
"Dixiecrat Party and its founder Strom Thurmond"




I love it how liberals pile the entire Dixiecrat movement of the 1950s and 1960s onto Strom Thurmond (D-SC), while forgetting people like Fulbright (D-AK), Gore (D-TN), Hollings (D-SC), Wallace (D-AL), Russell (D-GA), Rivers (D-SC), etc.
69 posted on 12/27/2002 1:24:11 PM PST by BaBaStooey
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To: #3Fan
Did they burn Washington DC?

No, they weren't even particularly effective in attempts to burn St. Albans, Vermont

Invading is hard, but it doesn't mean the country being invaded is stronger than the country invading

But sometimes it is. Consider the 1866 invasion of Canada by about 3500 Kennedy types.

After camping out on the village green, they marched north until they were about six miles over the border, having crossed into Frelighsburg, Quebec from Franklin, Vermont. The Canadians declared Martial Law and President Johnson ordered munitions and supplies left in St. Albans seized under the Neutrality Act of 1818. When the Fenians retreated to St. Albans, where they found the park occupied by U.S. troops sent there by President Johnson to enforce neutrality. Defeated without so much as a single shot fired, the Irishmen were escorted to the depot and shipped back to Boston while locals were entertained by an Army band concert.

70 posted on 12/27/2002 1:25:40 PM PST by PAR35
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
And on top of all that, Parts of Illinois are further South than parts of Virginia! LOL
71 posted on 12/27/2002 1:30:46 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
I'm still not getting the possible link between Germany and the U.S. in WW1.

The US was dragged into WWI on the British side by Southern president Woodrow Wilson. He was showing his Confederate roots.

72 posted on 12/27/2002 1:32:02 PM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35
No, they weren't even particularly effective in attempts to burn St. Albans, Vermont

Now would be a good time to try again. Liberal wackos have taken over Vermont.

But sometimes it is. Consider the 1866 invasion of Canada by about 3500 Kennedy types.

Kennedy types only kill women. They wouldn't get far.

After camping out on the village green, they marched north until they were about six miles over the border, having crossed into Frelighsburg, Quebec from Franklin, Vermont. The Canadians declared Martial Law and President Johnson ordered munitions and supplies left in St. Albans seized under the Neutrality Act of 1818. When the Fenians retreated to St. Albans, where they found the park occupied by U.S. troops sent there by President Johnson to enforce neutrality. Defeated without so much as a single shot fired, the Irishmen were escorted to the depot and shipped back to Boston while locals were entertained by an Army band concert.

What were they doing, retaliating for Civil War raids? If so, Johnson may have had some incentive to sieze their property.

73 posted on 12/27/2002 1:39:21 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: PAR35
The US was dragged into WWI on the British side by Southern president Woodrow Wilson. He was showing his Confederate roots.

There weren't other reasons?

74 posted on 12/27/2002 1:40:52 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: ConservativeMan55
Whites were enslaved BY Indians, we need to get that right. Read up the the Frendh and Indian Wars! :)
75 posted on 12/27/2002 1:41:03 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: PAR35
Third, Freedom Fighters based in Canada launched at least one Southern raid against Union territory during the war.

"Freedom Fighters" fighting for slavery. How ironic.

76 posted on 12/27/2002 1:43:39 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
And on top of all that, Parts of Illinois are further South than parts of Virginia! LOL

Every state had fans on both sides of the argument, just as happened in 1776.

77 posted on 12/27/2002 1:48:29 PM PST by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Of course. Just like the Democrats siding with al Qaida and Saddam today. McKinney, Murray, McDermott, Bonier,... Must be the Ms (ems).
78 posted on 12/27/2002 1:54:55 PM PST by #3Fan
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To: #3Fan
True. Randy Moss, Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakan, etc., are the biggest racists in America. And none of them have ever voted Republican I'm sure. Let's compare Randy Moss' press with Rocker's. 17 posted on 12/27/2002 10:54 AM PST by #3Fan

Randy Moss? Huh?
Idiot? for sure.
Awsome talent? Yes.
Appears to be maturing (at least as a player)? Yup.
Racist? Where did that come from?

79 posted on 12/27/2002 1:55:59 PM PST by Minn
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To: #3Fan
Of course. Just like the Democrats siding with al Qaida and Saddam today. McKinney, Murray, McDermott, Bonier,... Must be the Ms (ems).

At least we voted McKinney out when we got the chance ;o)

80 posted on 12/27/2002 2:03:36 PM PST by 4CJ
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