Never mind what history books say: the South won (GREELEY ALERT)

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | December 27, 2002 | ANDREW GREELEY

[Missouri]

>>Four legs good. Two legs baaaaaddddd<<


Don't forget, some animals or more equal than others.

[4CJ]

Anti-Southern attack ad ping.

I'm sure they take pride for their unbounded hatred.

[4CJ]

Several of my ancestors came to this country as "indentured servants". Yet very few today understand the similarities of serfdom, indentured service and slavery.

[4CJ]

They were also not around by the time of TWBTS.

Actually they were. The legislature of the state of Illinois issued a resolution ( 91_SJ0062) recognizing such:

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois, at the time of its acceptance into the Union in 1818 and for a longtime thereafter, practiced de facto slavery masqueraded as "indentured servitude"; the census of 1840 enumerated slaves in Illinois in violation of the Ordinance of 1787, which outlawed slavery in the Northwest Territories; and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois passed the infamous and unjust Black Laws (1819), otherwise known as the Black Codes, which were a denial of human rights designed to cover up slavery and the slave trade within the borders of the State and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois supported the Black Codes for more than forty-six years until they were finally repealed; and

WHEREAS, In the State of Illinois the majority of Illinois citizens favored closing the State to African-American residents and withholding the right of citizenship from those African-American residents already living in the State; and

WHEREAS, The State of Illinois passed dehumanizing laws stating that slaves were not persons, but property, and as property the ownership of enslaved Africans was to be fully protected by Illinois law; and

WHEREAS, For many years, Black people, free or otherwise, had no legal status as citizens in the State of Illinois...

[Maximum Leader]

Yeah, it's interesting to speculate about historical what-ifs. There's a novelist by the name of Harry Turtledove who has made a career of writing alternative history (he also writes science fiction but that's not my bag).

He has a series of books (beginning with How Few Remain) that speculates on what the USA and the CSA would be like if the South had won its independence. He followed that with a series about World War I... with the US on the German side and the CSA on the British.

Turtledove is an incredible writer, he used to teach history at UCLA so he knows of what he speaks.

[DallasMike]

I wasn't arguing, just making commentary.

[#3Fan]

Yeah, it's interesting to speculate about historical what-ifs. There's a novelist by the name of Harry Turtledove who has made a career of writing alternative history (he also writes science fiction but that's not my bag). He has a series of books (beginning with How Few Remain) that speculates on what the USA and the CSA would be like if the South had won its independence. He followed that with a series about World War I... with the US on the German side and the CSA on the British.

I'm still not getting the possible link between Germany and the U.S. in WW1. Any effort by the British to use the weaklings Canada and the CSA against the U.S. after the Civil War would've failed by 1914. Canada is too sparsely populated and slavery would've kept the CSA in it's agricultural based economy for too long prohibiting the growth of industry, thereby rendering both unable to push it's weight around with the U.S. Plus, there is a sense of right and wrong that would've worked to keep the U.S. away from allying with the devious Germans. We had a very high percentage of German descended people in our populations in WW1 and WW2 and that didn't stop us from doing the right thing and defeating Germany.

Turtledove is an incredible writer, he used to teach history at UCLA so he knows of what he speaks.

I'll keep quiet about my bias against university professors for now. :^)

[#3Fan]

I wasn't arguing, just making commentary.

Sorry. Figured you were a fringer.

[BaBaStooey]

"Dixiecrat Party and its founder Strom Thurmond"

---

I love it how liberals pile the entire Dixiecrat movement of the 1950s and 1960s onto Strom Thurmond (D-SC), while forgetting people like Fulbright (D-AK), Gore (D-TN), Hollings (D-SC), Wallace (D-AL), Russell (D-GA), Rivers (D-SC), etc.

[PAR35]

Did they burn Washington DC?

No, they weren't even particularly effective in attempts to burn St. Albans, Vermont

Invading is hard, but it doesn't mean the country being invaded is stronger than the country invading

But sometimes it is. Consider the 1866 invasion of Canada by about 3500 Kennedy types.

After camping out on the village green, they marched north until they were about six miles over the border, having crossed into Frelighsburg, Quebec from Franklin, Vermont. The Canadians declared Martial Law and President Johnson ordered munitions and supplies left in St. Albans seized under the Neutrality Act of 1818. When the Fenians retreated to St. Albans, where they found the park occupied by U.S. troops sent there by President Johnson to enforce neutrality. Defeated without so much as a single shot fired, the Irishmen were escorted to the depot and shipped back to Boston while locals were entertained by an Army band concert.

[#3Fan]

And on top of all that, Parts of Illinois are further South than parts of Virginia! LOL

[PAR35]

I'm still not getting the possible link between Germany and the U.S. in WW1.

The US was dragged into WWI on the British side by Southern president Woodrow Wilson. He was showing his Confederate roots.

[#3Fan]

No, they weren't even particularly effective in attempts to burn St. Albans, Vermont

Now would be a good time to try again. Liberal wackos have taken over Vermont.

But sometimes it is. Consider the 1866 invasion of Canada by about 3500 Kennedy types.

Kennedy types only kill women. They wouldn't get far.

After camping out on the village green, they marched north until they were about six miles over the border, having crossed into Frelighsburg, Quebec from Franklin, Vermont. The Canadians declared Martial Law and President Johnson ordered munitions and supplies left in St. Albans seized under the Neutrality Act of 1818. When the Fenians retreated to St. Albans, where they found the park occupied by U.S. troops sent there by President Johnson to enforce neutrality. Defeated without so much as a single shot fired, the Irishmen were escorted to the depot and shipped back to Boston while locals were entertained by an Army band concert.

What were they doing, retaliating for Civil War raids? If so, Johnson may have had some incentive to sieze their property.

[#3Fan]

The US was dragged into WWI on the British side by Southern president Woodrow Wilson. He was showing his Confederate roots.

There weren't other reasons?

[RaceBannon]

Whites were enslaved BY Indians, we need to get that right. Read up the the Frendh and Indian Wars! :)

[#3Fan]

Third, Freedom Fighters based in Canada launched at least one Southern raid against Union territory during the war.

"Freedom Fighters" fighting for slavery. How ironic.

[4CJ]

And on top of all that, Parts of Illinois are further South than parts of Virginia! LOL

Every state had fans on both sides of the argument, just as happened in 1776.

[#3Fan]

Of course. Just like the Democrats siding with al Qaida and Saddam today. McKinney, Murray, McDermott, Bonier,... Must be the Ms (ems).

[Minn]

True. Randy Moss, Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakan, etc., are the biggest racists in America. And none of them have ever voted Republican I'm sure. Let's compare Randy Moss' press with Rocker's. 17 posted on 12/27/2002 10:54 AM PST by #3Fan

Randy Moss? Huh?
Idiot? for sure.
Awsome talent? Yes.
Appears to be maturing (at least as a player)? Yup.
Racist? Where did that come from?

[4CJ]

Of course. Just like the Democrats siding with al Qaida and Saddam today. McKinney, Murray, McDermott, Bonier,... Must be the Ms (ems).

At least we voted McKinney out when we got the chance ;o)