Freedom (This is a MUST READ!)

Eject Eject Eject ^ | December 22, 2002 | Bill Whittle

[Mortimer Snavely]

Dialogue in the adult world requires that you have a reasonably developed vocabulary, a coherent continuity of thought, the ability to understand complex sentences, and a more than passing facility with concept formation. It would behoove you to not blame your problems in these areas on those people who do not share these deficiencies.

Engaging in realistic analysis requires facility with these basic cognitive skills, but unfortunately, realistic analysis is unfashionable in conservative circles these days, particularly in the Bush camp.

[Mortimer Snavely]

'Give me a conservative President who is effective before a President who is smart and "right-thinking" on the short list of 100 conservative issues. The former will succeed and the latter will be pilloried by the press and the public.'

Bush is effective at trying to make nice with those who stay awake late at night figuring out ways to emasculate, lobotomize, and destroy what's left of our country. In doing so, he helps them achieve their aims by delegating to the fringe those of us who want to defend the USA and those ideas which made her what she once was. This is not a good thing, howsoever successful he is at it.

[RLK]

You are the most cynical SOB I've ever met on Free Republic.

-------------------------

Thank you very much for the complement. That cynicism has been hard won through considerable cost, work and experience. It required years to liberate myself from the pretty lies I and others where programmed with in our youth.

I no longer believe ministers or priests don't molest kids or that 30% aren't engaged in sex with congregation members. I no longer believe presidents are intelligent gods who don't hump interns in the Oval Office. I don't believe all cops and politicians are honest. I used to believe education was education and those who educated were infallable.There are many things I no longer believe.

I take each person and event on a case by case basis separate from intimidating trappings or aura of office, from descriptions by media, from glorifying picture on a war, and from the opinions of those around me. It's a road less traveled. When you deal with me, you must stand rigorous inspection.

I think you to be among those who cling to earlier programming and to wishes that the world not be as it is. That's as charitable as I can state it.

[Skywalk]

I have never met Mr. Kocher in person, but it is apparent from his articles(how many have you written) that the man is intelligent and offers GENUINELY ORIGINAL arguments, something that even some of our best pundits in the conservo-libert movement often fail to do.

For a Christian you seem to forget that line about "being a friend of the world and an enemy of the Lord." Don't be fooled by appearances or primate displays of prestige or power. There are far fouler things in this world, even in the prettiest packages than you could imagine.

The man has VERY strong ideals and defined them through years of thought and experience. Just because he sees the fall we've taken since the ideals of the Founders, doesn't mean he's cynical, just objective.

[RogueIsland]

What this person writes about only happens in the movies or as wishful thinking fantasy of an imaginative mind.

Or in the Warsaw Ghetto. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen when a few people realize that they have nothing to lose. Unfortunately, things usually have to get very, very dark indeed before even a few people cross that psychological line. Probably only a very few of us know for sure (from experience) where our own line lies.

[RogueIsland]

only to be victimized by ruthless gangs of raping, looting cutthroats who couldn't make a fruit basket, sweeping down on them, murdering them and carting away the loot, to return a few years later, forever, ad infinitum. Vikings, Mongols, desperadoes of every stripe - they are a cancer on humanity but there they are and there they have always been.

One slight historical correction. While the Vikings were without doubt ruthless raiders, they were hardly morons who "couldn't make a fruit basket". They had a fairly sophisticated economy based on trade and agriculture in addition to raiding, and were some of the most talented navigators, boat builders, and sailors of the day -- perhaps the most talented. They were also skilled artisans whose metalwork is on display in museums around the world.

In fact, one could draw some parallel to the Germans of the 1930s here: a talented, culturally rather advanced people that were able to reconcile that trait with a frightening streak of cruelty and bellicosity.

[tom h]

Actually, RLK, I continue to pity you. You sound like countless other folks who have been "burned" by religion (I do not equate organized religion as being equal to Christian faith) and are living a life in reaction to being burned. My mother was one. I've met countless lapsed Catholics and Christians who sound just like you, though with a less acerbic bite to their writing. They decry the same problems as you, and have the same reactions as you. Unfortunately, my friend, you are not especially unique in your sentiments.

You seem to feel that the yardstick measuring the worth of your life is one related to your ability to throw words that bite and hurt. Well, that puts you in good company with others -- Maureen Dowd of the New York Times comes to mind, though she is admittedly of a different political persuasion. But your yardstick is foolish, and as you pound away on your keyboard, slaying the dragons you see out there on the horizon, you are merely blowing in the wind or climbing ladders leaning against the wrong tree. Maureen Dowd thinks she wins the "best biting wit of the year award" each December, but she sways no one with her writing and just gives New York liberals a warm feeling in their heart while drinking their coffee.

There are other ways to heal yourself than just being angry. I know you won't listen. Perhaps someday you'll be transformed like Saul of Tarsus. I'll conclude all my remarks on this note.

[Pagey]

Wow. Re-Read at home tonight Bump.

[RLK]

After reviewing your attempts to be a half-assed psychiatrist and minister here, I'd be advising you not to quit your daytime job. I don't need your pits or counseling.

[RLK]

Correct for error:
After reviewing your attempts to be a half-assed psychiatrist and
minister here, I'd be advising you not to quit your daytime job. I don't
need your pity or counseling.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

They were serving a search warrant, not an arrest warrant.

Ah, that really explains a lot! Thanks for hanging tight and making that distinction. So it's not a matter of just grabbing him, the guy had to be present.

[neutrino]

Impressive! Thanks for posting!

[nanny]

I respectfully submit that you are wrong. George Bush might be disappointing you but he is first and foremost a man who intends to be an effective politician. This requires that he pick his battles and especially select his hills to die on.

A most effective politician - but not very good for this country. Yes, it will keep him in power and yes he might win battles - but to what end. Not to the betterment of this country.

We have been hearing this 'Bush knows what is best' for quite some time now - when will we see any evidence of this? I am being serious here. WE got a tax cut - that has evaporated - what else?

There has to come a time when even those who think he walks on water are going to have to admit that he may not know what he is doing, or that he may know exactly what he is doing and that is very frightening.

[tom h]

"A most effective politician - but not very good for this country. Yes, it will keep him in power and yes he might win battles - but to what end. Not to the betterment of this country.

We have been hearing this 'Bush knows what is best' for quite some time now - when will we see any evidence of this? I am being serious here. WE got a tax cut - that has evaporated - what else?

There has to come a time when even those who think he walks on water are going to have to admit that he may not know what he is doing, or that he may know exactly what he is doing and that is very frightening. "

Time will tell -- specifically, the next two years. But it looks like you are focusing on your own needs ("where's my tax cut") and not national needs. Your motives for criticizing Bush do not sound especially upright.

BTW, I equate the term "effective politician" not cynically (e.g., like those who think all politicians are crooked, and an effective politician is one who is especially good at getting away with it) but the way one would view Abe Lincoln as an effective politician. Everybody hated Abe during his two terms -- the Northerners, because he didn't hew to the party line for the newly formed Republican party, and the Southerners, for obvious reasons. Yet Abe was a man moved by his faith and his strong convictions. Time has proven him to be great. Read the books "Freedom" or "Lincoln" to get a glimpse at a President who led the nation through a very difficult time and was wholly unpopular. His own backers in some ways hated him more than his enemies in the South, whatever the issue -- taxes, slavery, the Emancipation Proclamation, conscription, conduct of the war, selection of military commanders, political alliances.

Is Bush a clone of Lincoln? Of course not. Yet, I think that the issues facing Bush are equally daunting. He has to steer a nation and a world into and through tense military times that could end satisfactorily or cause the eruption of a worldwide war. At the same time, he has the opportunity to have the most siginficant impact on the nation's economy that any President has had in a century. These things take time. And thankfully, most Americans are trusting him to do it right, not whining on the sidelines about how he isn't addressing their own pet issue.

There are two many Freepers who focus on their own little selfish project or issue, and yap and yammer away how Bush isn't doing this or that. Such narrow focus is beneath us. And, my guess is that those who complain most vigorously are ones who have never held leadership positions in their company or organization.

The issues facing our nation are weighty. I trust Bush's instincts and his decision-making ability. I do not think he walks on water. And, I will let the test of time prove whether my forecast is right or not. I would not trade places with him for all the money in the world. I also cannot conceive of another Republican whom I would rather have in the Oval Office.

[nanny]

I only used the tax cut because that is the first thing the blind supporters of Bush bring up. It was insignificant to me or anyone else.

His strange friendship with Fox and allowing Mexico to ignore the soveriegnty of this country. His continued support of illegal aliens and the worse than open border with Mexico - even though it has been proven that ME men are coming across the border - paying 30,000 a piece to drug runners to get them here.

He may be the first sitting President to criticize the Christian relgion because a Christian made a statement regarding another religion.

He, if not orchestrated than pushed, Lott's debacle. The congress and the executive office are/should be totally separate. HE crossed the line, publicly and in a big way.

He is getting dangerously close to playing the race card - has pushed more big spending measures than the Democrats - has often and loudly proclaimed 'Islam is a religion of peace' and threatened anyone who 'harrasses' them - while doing nothing in the same vein for the Christian or other religions in this country.

While pushing through more and more restrictive legislation for American people, he is protecting the rights of illegal aliens.

It took a year to check out the workers at the airports or to register ME aliens.

He is singling out Iraq for attack -why? They might/do/did/will have biological weapons. WEll, guess what? So do a lot of other countries. They might/do/did/will have connections with the terrorists - well guess what? Washington may be the only place in the world that doesn't know or suspect Saudi Arabia absolutely did have connections and financed many of them. We do know N. Korea has nuclear weapons and so does China. Both of those may very well be more of a threat to world stability and the US in particular than Iraq. It seems to me Iraq is pretty well contained. If we were afraid of them exporting biological warfare - wouldn't we have our borders and ports a little better manned. No we would rather make a 'regime change' over there. What exactly is our purpose for the war? We have big trouble brewing right here in our own hemisphere. This could, if not already, spill into this country.

There are two many Freepers who focus on their own little selfish project or issue, and yap and yammer away how Bush isn't doing this or that. Such narrow focus is beneath us. And, my guess is that those who complain most vigorously are ones who have never held leadership positions in their company or organization.

Now those may seem like 'selfish little issues, or narrow focus' but I consider them quite large. Since evidently you 'have held leadership positions in your company or organization', and I therefore I am unqualified to speak - what is a large issue? Do you realize how very frightening and insulting that statement was. It is saying, 'you are just too ignorant to even speak against the President - how dare you'. Did you really read that before you typed it? Do we now have to be qualified to have an opinion on the President or the direction of the country? Are you willing to extend that qualification into the voting booth also? Now those are your qualifications - suppose those in power have other qualifications in mind?

Well go ahead and rip to shreds and demean your fellow countrymen because we dare question the President - if it makes you feel better. It is quite chilling, however, this blind loyalty, and viciousness to anyone who questions the President.

These people are politicians - our employees. They have their own agenda. The best we can hope is their agenda and ours will mesh in places. But guess what, we have to always, no matter what party or what person is in office assume the emperor just might not have on any clothes.

The tone of the some of the speeches (all is well) (all will be well) seems like the tone I would imagine many of those European Jews used with each other behind those closed doors. They could not fathom that anything really bad could happen. I suspect it is the same for people down through the ages when their world is in serious danger. Nothing bad can happen - after all this is America - right <

[tom h]

" ... therefore I am unqualified to speak ... 'you are just too ignorant to even speak against the President ... Do we now have to be qualified to have an opinion on the President or the direction of the country?"

Sorry to have touched a raw nerve and forgive rapid typing that was not adequately proofed. What I did mean is that those who have never held leadership positions -- at work, at church, in a volunteer organization -- have never learned that leadership involves compromise, and that timing is critical. Those who have never led never learn that their constituents are never satisfied. I did not mean to imply that leaders are the only ones qualified to criticize the President or that leadership roles are a qualification for voting. I think you got carried away. But I do apologize for not being careful with my words.

But, I suggest you become an elder at your church, or join the board of the local YMCA, or be on the board of your homeowner's association, if you aren't a manager at your job. Your constituents will be calling and complaining constantly that you aren't doing enough. And, once you've got your feet wet you will be thinking things like:

"Can't they realize I can't do everything at once?"

"Don't they know that if I don't finesse this issue I will be totally marginalized in this role -- and might as well resign?"

"Don't they know that making sausage is messy?"

"They elected me to do a job. Why don't they trust my instincts in carrying it out and give me some time and a chance?"

I sympathize with most of the complaints you made in your long reply to me. But effecting the change is incredibly difficult. And, until you know you to change organizations you will never know how difficult it is.

It's easy to be 100% pure in your convictions if your civic duty is merely to vote and write letters to the editor. If your civic duty is to lead, about the best you can do is be 100% pure in your heart and keep everyone guessing publicly about what you are doing while you decide which battles to fight and which hills are worth dying for.

Bush's hill to die for is national security. That's why we're fighting Iraq. And I want 90% of his focus on that to ensure my children live in an America we recognize. About the worst outcome would be to undermine his military leadership for a more minor issue like immigration. But after a military victory in Iraq he will be able to accomplish more domestically -- but once again, probably only one issue at a time.

[philetus]

ping

[nanny]

Well, you supposed that anyone who complained about President Bush had never had any leadership roles, etc. That is incorrect and presumptious on your part. But you see, I would never have made a compromise that destroyed the organization. The object here is to keep American and keep it free not pander to whatever group has your ear.

Bush's hill to die for is national security. That's why we're fighting Iraq. And I want 90% of his focus on that to ensure my children live in an America we recognize. About the worst outcome would be to undermine his military leadership for a more minor issue like immigration. But after a military victory in Iraq he will be able to accomplish more domestically -- but once again, probably only one issue at a time.

How can you say that the open border is 'a more minor issue'? If Hussein decides he would like to use one of those biological weapons he is supposed to have, how do you think he will get it here? It will have to come through our borders or ports. Why do you think the ME men are paying drug runners 30,000 each to come here? To make a better life? I suggest to ' take a few lives'. You cannot divorce our national defense from our borders - they are our first line of defense. Now more than ever in history. WE are not fighting an enemy that will attack us with tanks and big guns - they will attack one man at a time. The only way they can get here is through our borders. It is insanity to try to separate the two - although just be pretending to ignore it President Bush has a lot of people snowed on that subject.

Now as for the immigration of the illegals who are here for jobs and freebies - what good is it going to do us if we do effect a 'regime change' in Iraq only to find that our country is full of people who will 'vote with Mexico in mind' as their past leader told them to do? To not care if our states are broke, our property taxes are skyrocketing, our hospitals are broke, healthcare is becoming increasingly expensive to citizens, education is seriously impaired due to special needs of immigrants, cities are broke, basic services are being overtaxed, our law enforcement agencies and judicial systems are overrrun to the point, the illegals who break laws are just ignored (and I don't just mean immigration laws). Now if something is not done about that your children will not recognize the America we have, whether Hussein stays in power or not.

I suspect Hussein, if he does intend to attack America, already has his people in place and is probably bringing in more each day.

President Bush does not consider immigration a minor issue - it is a very important issue to him - he has shown that. His agenda for it and mine are just on opposite sides. He intends to do nothing about the illegal immigration even if it does put this country at risk to terrorists and certainly at risk economically. Now on that subject, he has not compromised - his agenda is exactly the same as it was the day he took office.

Now you go ahead and follow him blindly and viciously attack anyone who questions him. You can also attempt to believe our borders have nothing to do with national defense when you are dealing with terrorists - but once again, we should all be willing to suggest the emporer just might not be wearing anything. Even if it means you are told how unqualified or ignorant or 'just don't understand'. I fear I understand only too well.

[Blue Collar Christian]

I'm afraid to ask your opinion of a police pursuit! But don't let that hold you back.

[Blue Collar Christian]

Well put, the boss can't be concerned with more of the popularity contest than what is takes to get re-elected. He's got a job to do, and no one else knows as much of the big picture than the boss,though plenty of those under him talk like they could do a better job. Those under do not have all the facts, or if they do, they should throw their hat in.