Stem cells: Give us the cures, spare us the sermon

[Newark, NJ] -- Paul Byrne has been a political operative in Jersey City for 25 years. He is one of those guys for whom politics is both vocation and avocation. He knows everybody in Democratic politics, and everybody knows him.

Nine years ago, Byrne was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, which has led to a retina condition called macular degeneration. At 57, and despite two operations on both eyes, he has lost 98 percent of his sight. But he keeps up with the news because four or five friends call and read him the newspapers.

Among the stories that came to him this way was a piece about a breakthrough in stem cell research in India that has led to the successful restoration of damaged retinas.

It left him furious. It is a fury directed at President George W. Bush, who is an opponent of embryonic stem cell research because the technique results in the destruction of embryos. Accordingly, Bush has ordered that federal funding be denied for this kind of research. And never mind that the embryos at issue are those left over from in-vitro procedures at pregnancy clinics and would be destroyed in any event.

So, freeze in perpetuity superfluous embryos created in a lab to induce birth, and you are doing the Lord's work. Destroy embryos after their stem cells are extracted in an attempt to cure people suffering from a dozen different diseases, and you are in league with Satan. Insert a recipient's DNA into a stem cell to reduce chances the body will reject it and you are paving the way for human cloning.

Last week the state Senate passed a bill that would make New Jersey the second state in the nation to legalize embryonic stem cell research. (NJ Senate Votes to Harvest Babies for body parts (My Title)) The bill is sponsored by Richard Codey, the Democratic leader in the Senate. It passed in a party-line vote with most Republicans abstaining. It passed over the objections of the Roman Catholic Church and various anti-abortion allies. The Codey legislation may be altered a tad but Gov. James E. McGreevey is a supporter and it is going to become law.

Not surprisingly, Paul Byrne is an enthusiastic supporter of the Codey bill. It may help him see again. He believes it's good science and good politics in a state chockablock in pharmaceutical research firms.

Of the opponents, he says, "They are the very people who believed in miracles, yet they would deny me my miracle." And they are hard at work.

Joan Quigley is a Democratic assemblywoman from Hudson County. She is being flooded with form letters informing her that the Codey bill "is not part of God's plan."

"I tell them that it's more important that God help those to whom he's already given life," Quigley says.

For years now, I've been reading about the promise of stem cells as a cure for a bunch of diseases. Parkinson's disease as often as not heads up the list. This interests me because I've had Parkinson's disease for about six years now. I'm not complaining. If you have to get a heretofore incurable, degenerative disease, this one is not the worst. Still, it hasn't been much fun and it's nice to know there's a potential cure out there.

So I could do without President Bush playing politics with my future by buying into the religious right's contention that it knows what God is thinking and God believes the destruction of embryos in course of research isn't much different than killing babies.

As for the Catholic Church, if the bishops want to take the position they know the mind of God on the question of embryonic research, so be it. But they might want to think about confining their efforts to people who still put stock in what they have to say. Their moralizing rings a little hollow these days.

Let God and me handle this. If the bishops don't mind, I'd like the opportunity to be treated if and when the researchers come up with the right technique.

And I'm willing to take my chances that God won't make me out to be a mass murderer.

They were not created for implantation in the first place, and in the second, no one wants them for that purpose. In addition, the embryos would, at this point, be unsuited in any case for full development.

The "wishful thinking" is, alas, on your side of this issue.

Refer to my previous posts for the discussion of these embryos' alleged "humanity". To summarize, if they are 1. never to be implanted in a living woman; and 2. never to be birthed by any living woman; and 3. lack the capacity for such birth in any case, then they are not now, nor will they ever be, nor do they even have the POTENTIAL to be human.

To think otherwise is to operate soley on emotion without reason, and on flimsy emotional ground at that. As much as some may believe otherwise, these are not "babies".

Then we will have to agree to disagree, Sink. I hope that does not make me "evil" in your mind, as we agree on many things outside of this matter.

In any event, I do not think you "evil" for your stance; just misguided. As you probably think me.

But to non-fund a means in which we may gain medical knowlege is flawed.

I agree. The biggest problem seems to be the people on both sides of this issue are "all or nothing" people.

It is absolutely unconscionable for those who claim to be religious to stand in the way of this.

Yup! See,you and I don't always disagree!(G) I'm with you 100% on this.

Jeez, Pete, you and I may actually agree on something, if I read your post right!

I think I'll have a drink to that one!

Oh, and a Merry Christmas to you!

They were not created for implantation in the first place...

No, they were created ofr the express purpose of killing them and harvesting their living cells. Creating life just to kill it is a crime in the first place.

...and in the second, no one wants them for that purpose.

The right to life is not predicated on being wanted.

It is absolutely unconscionable for those who claim to be religious to stand in the way of this.

Actually not. Religious or not, if you believe that the embryo's are human life, it would be unconscionable not to stand in the way.

I believe they are humans at that stage of humanity and as such I oppose the research becuase it destroys human life.

". Creating life just to kill it is a crime in the first place."

Under precisely what statute? And please, stick to U.S. laws, here. Biblical laws do not carry force of law in America. I understand that you BELIEVE they should, but that is not the issue. Many do not share this belief; they cannot be FORCED to.

"The right to life is not predicated on being wanted."

On what , then, IS it predicated? It nowhere exists in the Constitution, and it can in fact be ABROGATED according to that document. In fact, it is, every day, around the globe, and at various stages, both born and pre-born.

usual higher mammalian studies to test these theories regarding embryonic stem cells has not been done

Something like this....?

Human stem cells transplanted into mice eventually developed into working, mouse-sized human kidneys, researchers report in a new study.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/811406/posts

Say what?

"I oppose the research becuase it destroys human life. "

It could also SAVE lives, J. Even WITH your beliefs, you cannot ignore that fact, and in that case YOU TOO place yourself in judgement. You also do it based upon YOUR interpretation of your religion. Others have different, but equally valid, views. That's why the law, though influenced by old religious PRINCIPLES, reflects no ONE religion or set of beliefs.

It could also SAVE lives, J.

Sure, but like Rooster, you assume that because something can be done it should be done. I disagree.

I think it's bad policy to take a life to save a life absent consent.

It has more to do with my humanity than my religion.

You feel differently. No problem. I think you're misguided, I don't think you're evil.

The law is unjust. I don't care what you "believe" about whether unborn life is really life or not. You are deluded. Our life comes from God and not from the Constitution. Of course, life is murdered all over the world every day. (born and unborn)

All these murders are to be condemned and those who condone them are likewise to be condemned.

You can be deprived of "LIFE, liberty, or property" through "due process of law", which is how we come to the Death Penalty. Also, killing in war or self-defense is held universally to be legal in U.S. law. The "Right To Life", as such, is ONLY mentioned in the Declaration Of Independance, which, although a wonderful document in and of itself, is NOT a statutory or legal document.

The vast amount of killing the human race engages in, both intentionally and otherwise, of ALL AGES of people, pretty much shows how "sacred" life is to humans in general. Essentially, you DO have the Right To Life...so long as you can KEEP yourself alive.

A brutal reality, but one with which all life has lived with since the primordial ooze.

I think I'll have a drink to that one!

Have two,one for me. I quit drinking over 20 years ago,due to popular demand.

Oh, and a Merry Christmas to you!

And the same to you and yours.

Guilty murderers have given up their right to live. unborn babies are innocent of any crime, and deserve to be protected from those who would kill them. The right to life is not predicated on the ability to defend yourself from being murdered.

Biblical laws do not carry force of law in America.

Are you sure? You know all of that equality stuff that is in the Constitution? It's based on what's in the Bible. Without that Biblical grounding, you get ... well, guys like you, who have no basis for anything other than utilitarian morality.

And, of course, Biblical laws do carry force in a somewhat larger Jursdiction. It'd be stupid to ignore that fact.

Can I kill your two year old kid? He can't keep himself alive.

If you're reduced to the bizarre arguments in #54, you've lost.

You're advocating the law of the jungle.

You just declared open season on children and the elderly. Too much hyperbole there Long Cut.

By the way, take a peak at the 14th Amendment.

"The law is unjust"

Not according to those who MAKE, VOTE ON, or JUDGE the law.

"Our life comes from God and not from the Constitution. "

If you hold this religious belief. Many do not, and should not be FORCED to.

"All these murders are to be condemned and those who condone them are likewise to be condemned."

Agreed. That will not stop them, however. That part of our nature will be with us until we cease to exist as a species, and it will continue with whatever replaces us. It is simply reality, and reality does not ASK if you like it or not...it only demands to be LIVED with. Like those with different beliefs, for instance.

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