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Rumsfeld Warns North Korea U.S. Can Handle Two Conflicts at Once
fox ^ | 12/23/02

Posted on 12/23/2002 10:59:27 AM PST by knak

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:35:20 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Stavka2
You are mistaking what N. Korea can do and what China with 400 nukes that can reach Salt Lake City could do.

They don't have that many warheads that can go that far. Try 30.

Yes, the US would destroy China, but the price would cripple America for several decades at the least.

Nope, it would wipe out the cities that make the western US vote Democrat in national elections.

The whole of the West Coast would be erredicated.

Oh, BULLSH*T!

We'd lose the biggest Democrat voting blocs west of the Rockies, and that's it. Not "the whole of the west coast." They don't have enough firepower to do that.

Rather costly to defend S. Korea/Taiwan...say some 100 million American lives...and knowing that, that is why China is not afraid.

100 megadeaths? Stavka2, the biggest Russian countervalue laydown would've killed maybe 80 million back in the good ol' days of the Cold War. China ain't even close to that amount of firepower.

You've been reading too much bad post-tribulation Rapture fiction.

81 posted on 12/24/2002 6:19:53 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
First off, they have over 3 million in the standing army, 1 million to remain at home and take care of things would probably be enough. Their army is designed for the offensive not defensive. Next, the Serbs were 10+ years behind and all US air power did was blow up 5 tanks, 13 bmps and a lot of civilians. The Vietnamese were even further behind as were the Chinese in the first Korean war. Didn't make much difference in the long run. As for their tech, you are fooling yourself if you think they are that far behind. Read up on their systems and the ones they by from Russia are state of the art, not to mention the US sells them just about everything, one way or another.

Your analysis is as conservative as the CIAs, which has been proved wrong countless times. They used the same analysis on the Chinese entry into Korea, on the Chinese making nukes, on the Chinese/Indian and Chinese/Vietnemes conflicts...problem is, the Chinese don't think like you. They think of themselves as the most superior human beings surrounded by barbarians. They are the Middle Kingdom and they rule the world...or rather, they will, and it's a done deal, just has to happen. You are simply missing their mentality.

82 posted on 12/24/2002 6:21:22 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
"You are mistaking what N. Korea can do and what China with 400 nukes that can reach Salt Lake City could do. Yes, the US would destroy China, but the price would cripple America for several decades at the least. The whole of the West Coast would be erredicated. Rather costly to defend S. Korea/Taiwan...say some 100 million American lives...and knowing that, that is why China is not afraid."

I think you have very valid insight here. . .

Why else woudl Dubya order (is was a direct order) to get the National Missle Defense System online by 2004?

In the meantime, American polititians continue to get wealthy off of deals they are (and have) making in China trade.

Don't you wonder why Gore and Clunkton were so eager to appease the Chinese?

One small example is Dianne Frankenstein - she and her hubbie have made $$$ with their businesses in mainland China.

83 posted on 12/24/2002 6:27:12 AM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Poohbah
If the Soviets had launched all 30 thousand war heads and say only 10%, 3,000 20 megaton city busters landed....oh lets see, that would pretty much cover every single large town and city in America. As for dismissing Los Anglus, San Fransisco, Portland, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Ancherage, Hanalulu and a half dozen other cities so cavalerly says a lot about you. Maybe you should ask those who happen to live on that side of the country if they like the prospect of becoming shadow puppets on burnt out walls?
84 posted on 12/24/2002 6:27:39 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Poohbah
And for your info, a 20 megaton bomb has a blast radius of 30 miles.
85 posted on 12/24/2002 6:28:16 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
First off, they have over 3 million in the standing army, 1 million to remain at home and take care of things would probably be enough.

You haven't been paying attention to the news from China of late. They pull 2 million men off of constabulary duty, those men will come home to discover that there was a people's revolt in their absence.

Their army is designed for the offensive not defensive.

Which throws your next point into a cocked hat.

Next, the Serbs were 10+ years behind and all US air power did was blow up 5 tanks, 13 bmps and a lot of civilians.

While they stood on defense. An offensive army on the move does not have the luxury of hiding.

The Vietnamese were even further behind as were the Chinese in the first Korean war. Didn't make much difference in the long run.

Different circumstances, most notably that we didn't have anything resembling a strategy and were unwilling to widen the war. This time, we are.

As for their tech, you are fooling yourself if you think they are that far behind. Read up on their systems and the ones they by from Russia are state of the art, not to mention the US sells them just about everything, one way or another.

I have read up on their systems. The Russians sell them the usual export "monkey models," and then they never train with the gear.

Your analysis is as conservative as the CIAs, which has been proved wrong countless times.

Not this time out.

They used the same analysis on the Chinese entry into Korea, on the Chinese making nukes, on the Chinese/Indian and Chinese/Vietnemes conflicts...problem is, the Chinese don't think like you. They think of themselves as the most superior human beings surrounded by barbarians.

Doesn't matter how they think--they still die the same as anyone else does.

They are the Middle Kingdom and they rule the world...or rather, they will, and it's a done deal, just has to happen. You are simply missing their mentality.

You're missing the key component of their mentality--that it's a done deal, eventually. Adventurism merely invites the derailment of their ultimate success.

86 posted on 12/24/2002 6:28:42 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Check_Your_Premises
The problem with NK's leaders is that the crazy bastards may go nuclear against SK or even Japan.

I sense that if the US is involved in a conflict, the strategy may be to kill the entire leadership and destory several key military areas of the country. I'm sure we have intelligence regarding where nuclear weapons and some bio-weapons are stored.

There also has to be constant dialogue with China now stating that if they can't reign-in NK, China stands to lose a great deal economically. Money talks, bullXXXX walks.

87 posted on 12/24/2002 6:29:37 AM PST by irish_lad
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To: Poohbah
"They don't have that many warheads that can go that far. Try 30."

Look what two passenger jets fully loaded with fuel did on 9/11.

Imagine 2 or 3 ICBMs strategically hitting their (large populated) targets.

If 9/11 proved anything, it is that in order to deal major pshchological and economical havoc on the U.S. doesn't take as much as we may have once thought.

88 posted on 12/24/2002 6:32:21 AM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Poohbah
The US response would be pretty simple: impound all Chinese monies in the US, and then tell the G-7 to choose between not doing business with China, or seeing all of THEIR American assets nationalized.

What are you smoking and do you have any idea what that would do to the US economy? That threat will work about as well as when the US told everyone not to trade with Iran...so US firms lost their 6% which was taken up by the Europeans as they where laughing quite hard.

89 posted on 12/24/2002 6:33:00 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
If the Soviets had launched all 30 thousand war heads and say only 10%, 3,000 20 megaton city busters landed....oh lets see, that would pretty much cover every single large town and city in America.

Listen, pal, if you don't understand things like the fact that NOT EVERY DAMN WEAPON in the Soviet arsenal yielded 20 megatons, or that not all 30,000 warheads could get to the US...you're merely displaying your ignorance.

As for dismissing Los Anglus, San Fransisco, Portland, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Ancherage, Hanalulu and a half dozen other cities so cavalerly says a lot about you. Maybe you should ask those who happen to live on that side of the country if they like the prospect of becoming shadow puppets on burnt out walls?

I happen to live on that side of the country. And you know what? The grown-ups are running things in America, which means that we won't waste time on focus groups and polls, we'll just nuke the living s**t out of China.

The Chinese ain't stupid, and they ain't crazy.

90 posted on 12/24/2002 6:33:46 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Stavka2
And for your info, a 20 megaton bomb has a blast radius of 30 miles.

And for your info, it's a waste of throw-weight to use a 20-megaton warhead.

91 posted on 12/24/2002 6:34:50 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Happy2BMe
Look what two passenger jets fully loaded with fuel did on 9/11.

Got us willing to put paid to the folks who did it.

Imagine 2 or 3 ICBMs strategically hitting their (large populated) targets.

Cathay will glow in the dark for generations to come. US citizens of Chinese descent will lie through their teeth and insist their ancestors came over from Japan.

If 9/11 proved anything, it is that in order to deal major pshchological and economical havoc on the U.S. doesn't take as much as we may have once thought.

Part of that was the unexpected use of our own economic assets to inflict the attack.

92 posted on 12/24/2002 6:37:34 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Stavka2
What are you smoking and do you have any idea what that would do to the US economy? That threat will work about as well as when the US told everyone not to trade with Iran...so US firms lost their 6% which was taken up by the Europeans as they where laughing quite hard.

When the threat is backed up by the US Navy announcing unrestricted submarine warfare on all ships in the South China Sea, and the US Government seizing all assets and real properties owned by Euro-peons...it'll stick. We just weren't willing to tell the Euros to stuff it back in 1980. We are now.

93 posted on 12/24/2002 6:39:53 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Crossbow Eel
"The ROK does have some kick ass border units and no doubt the US has some good combat troops in the area but you'd have to get a lot in to help those 36000 quickly.As for rule number 2 they have hundreds of km of tunnels not caves."

Honestly, IMHO the most lethal conventional fighting units in the world today are those of the South Korean marines.

While ferociously brave and some of the finest killing machines since the hordes of Ghengis Khan struck terror over Russia and Europe - there are only so many of them.

The real question here is are the South Koreans prepared to make the supreme sacrifice to preserver their way of life at all costs?

Personally, I wouldn't want to see that happen. Strategically, China would be perfectly situated to engulf Japan if they operated freely out of the Korean Peninsula.

94 posted on 12/24/2002 6:44:52 AM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Poohbah
What ever, obviously I'm not talking to a sensable human being. Next you'll tell me you work for DEBKA. Sure, and then the US will invade Europe, Russia, China and India all at the same time, so that when the Tharlian Empire arrives through the warp gate, DC will have all the world's resources ready. No more of a fantasy then what you post. I'm outa here.
95 posted on 12/24/2002 6:53:09 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: spetznaz
However personally i believe this whole nuclear stuff by N.Korea is just a way for them to maximize their gains ....eg they can develop their nukes in relative safety (hoping that the US will be tied in Iraq). Also they are using that development as blackmail (eg when they asked the US to sign some treaty saying they will not sell more weapons to S.Korea).

You got that right. And we just supposed to lay down our weapons under the wishes of Putin when it is he who supplies such ammunitions to N. Korea. We're only kidding ourselves in underestimating him let alone N. Korea. We've got to watch out for number 1 or else we'll step in number 2.

96 posted on 12/24/2002 11:24:03 AM PST by goldilucky
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