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To: aristeides
Any architect is making a statement with a large office building. Some make glass boxes and their statement is "I have designed a functional building". Some go for beauty of design, or height, or creative materials, or some combination of the above.

When you build the tallest building on the NY skyline, and build 2 of them side by side, then you are making a statement by that simple fact alone, regardless of design and appearance. Your statement is "I want this to be the most important building complex in this city." Those buildings, dominating the skyline, then become a visual image, or symbol for some, of the city itself.

The reason that the terrorists attacked the WTC is because it symbolizes NY, not because of what was going on inside. If they hated stockbrokers, they could target the NYSE. If they hated insurance, they could bring down a building that housed a big insurance company. If they didn't like usurers, they could bring down a bank building. But the WTC had firms in all those industries and more. It wasn't an attack on any specific business, it was an attack on New York. They couldn't blow the whole damn city up, so they went for the biggest thing in New York they could destroy, that's all.

What the buildings symbolize must depend on what their purpose is. Is it a jail? A seat of government? A library? A university? An apartment building? What the building qua building symbolizes depends on what goes on inside. How could Tolkien be so stupid as to consider a tall collection of offices as symbolic of Tyranny, unless he hated commerce in general?

I have never read these books, and never studied Tolkien, but from what I have learned about Tolkien's background, it appears that he was principled in his defense of core western values. Dreher's assumption that Tolkien would have considered the WTC a symbol of tyranny offends me, because I think it shows a great writer in a bad light without factual basis.

You are confusing the WTC as a symbol of NYC because of its place on the skyline, with its symbolism based upon on its function as an office building. Dreher seemed to be implying that because it is a place where trade was conducted, it is a symbol of tyranny. That is crap, IMO, and if Tolkien would have thought such, he would have been full of crap. I think Dreher is the one full of crap, though, not Tolkien.

As I said, otherwise an excellent article. I don't know why he felt the need to put in this attack on Tolkien's logic.

30 posted on 12/22/2002 5:42:33 PM PST by Defiant
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To: Defiant
Tyranny, no, but hybris maybe?
32 posted on 12/22/2002 6:08:32 PM PST by aristeides
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To: Defiant
I have never read these books,

Then why are you posting to a thread like this?

Back away from the keys for a while and read the books.

33 posted on 12/22/2002 6:15:35 PM PST by don-o
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To: Defiant
he was principled in his defense of core western values.

I think you misunderstand Dreher--or "core" values of the West.

Dreher's analogy has to do with the materialism loosely represented by the WTC. Understand that the American culture is not exactly unalloyed goodness: one needs only recall Madonna, Bill Clinton, and other such dreck to understand that there are quite a few people around the world who legitimately question the crass materialism and demi-pornographic sensuality exported from this country.

Neither of these are "core" Western values, nor is the at times un-seemly projection of power utilized by the USA (either military or economic) for questionable ends. (Think the mess in Kosovo.)

Dreher's allegory might be more complete were he to reference the other targets on 9/11: the US military in the Pentagon, and the US Government in (the White House? the Capitol?), also targets of the terrorists.

Neither Dreher, nor you, nor I, can possibly justify the murder of innocents. But Dreher's thesis holds water, I think. Of course, if you are a slightly daft Muslim, then you act on your worst suspicions. Kill the infidels.

54 posted on 12/22/2002 8:11:44 PM PST by ninenot
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