GOTTA SEE THIS-WarEndur.Freedom 12/23/02-Al Faw,Al-Fidaa,Nahrwan,Salman Pak,Tiebissou

Yahoo, AP, Reuters, and the usual suspects and many brave photographers. | 12/23/02 | The Armies of Good against the Axis of Evil

[Kathy in Alaska]

Awesome photos, Diogenesis, per usual. Thanks, Linda, for the ping.

[ovrtaxt]

If so, France is also how the French spell their country, though they pronounce it with a French accent, of course. It's not like Germany and other countries that have different names for their country

Yeah, everybody knows that they do that just to piss us off during the olympics. :)

[Prodigal Son]

Good photos of the Legionnaires. Thanks for the post.

[eureka!]

"Bump for Destruction of More Terrorists, and exposure of the UN Weapons Inspectors for what they are."

I'll bump that. Thank you Dio and the best of the holidays to you and yours. Same too for the brave forces fighting evil world wide...

[Uncle Jaque]

Re.: "Nothing terribly wrong with carrying a bolt-action rifle like the GIAT FR-F2 into a possible fight..."

That rifle appears to be based on the MAS M-36 Bolt Action, which is reputed to be one of the strongest and more stable platforms ever designed. They seem to have rigged a MAS 49/56 detatchable box magazine up to it, which would be a tactical improvement.

This system allows for a fairly long barrel in a short package. The M-36 is distinguished not only by it's 2-piece stock, but by the oddly-shaped, forward bent bolt handle. They were originally issued "sans" (a little Francswah Lingo, there) any sort of a "Safety".

Do you know if these are still chambered for the 7.5 X 54MM or are they in 7.62 NATO now?

It is, despite it's updated gadgets, a rather big and klunky looking thing... but I'd fully expect it to hold it's own at 1000 Meters against anything we've got in the .30 cal. Sniping arena.

It is rather doubtful that many Civilians get to play with one of these - but an enterprising 'Smith could probably build something very similar on an M-36 action.

[archy]

The French F1 version of the fusil de precision [a lil' more franzoischen for ya'- note that French as spoken in the Legion does not necessarily resemble that taught in US schools] is in the original 7,5x54mm chambering of the MAS36, which was indeed the last bolt-action rifle design to be adopted for use by a major military force as their primary armament. The follow-on semi-auto MAS 49 and later improved MAS 49-56 semiauto, which utilized a gas system similar to that of the later Stoner/Armalite AR-15 design were in the same caliber, as was the AAT-52 medium machinegun, at one time considered as a possible replacement for the dreadful M73/M219 7,62 NATO light machineguns fitted as co-axial MGs in most US tanks and armored vehicles- an adaptation of the M60 was considered by the Marines but was found not suitable, but US tank crews got the M240 US version of the Belgian MAG instead- an outstanding weapon, though the AAT isn't too bad and certainly beats the M73 flat out.

But the F2 version of the French sniper's rifle came out after the transition to the FAMAS Clarion in 5,56mm, and the development of match-grade 7,62mm ammunition had far exceeded the capabilities of the remarkably similar 7,5 French cartridge, which shares a .308 bullet diameter with the 7,62x51 NATO.

The 2-piece stock design of the parent MAS36 has evolved into a steel foreend for the F2 that offers a really stable attach point for the bipod and for camoflage wrapping that doesn't affect the free-floated barrel in the slightest; and on the F2 a black plastic thermal sleeve has been added to the barrel, lighter than the usual US varmint-weight bull barrels commonly seen but just as stable for repeat shots; takn main gun barrels have had aluminum thermal sleeves for most of the last decade or so for the same reason. And the use of the plastic sleeve cuts down on the thermal signature in a thermal image viewer after firing, a consideration as such equiopment becomes more widespread.

There's also a folding stock version of the F2, simple to fit due to the 2-piece stock design [I'm uncertain if this is just the fitting of the old para's stock for the CR36 version of the MAS36 to allow the bolt rifle to be reduced to the length of a US M1A1 folding stock carbine for parachutists, or is a new development] and there's a silenced barrel version, on which the sound suppressor can be fitted in 15 seconds or so, without any reduction in the rifle's effective range.

The real gem of the F2 system is its CILAS autoranging scope, much appreciated by the French snipers using it in comparison to the 10X mil-dot scopes fitted on French .338 Lapua L96A1 rifles. That would likely be the hardest part for an American gunsmith or accuracy tuner to duplicate on a MAS36 rebuild, but it might be possible.

I've considered going the other route, and rechambering a MAS36 to the Swedish 6,5x55 cartridge, since the Swedish Mausers are built on the weaker M95 Mauser action rather than the later M98. The MAS 36 has shown up in the $35-$50 range in recent import batches, offering an interesting low-cost starting place for bashing something more interesting together, but the original 7,5x54 cartridge is quite servicable in its own right, and the aperture sight of the MAS 36 is quite useful to my tired old eyes...and if a scoped 7,5mm rifle is a necessity, the semiauto MAS49/56 is factory fitted with a rail mount for an auxiliary telescopic sight that'll do fine. And there are other things that can be done to a MAS 49/56 as well....

[archy]

Don't think I've ever seen the L89 config of the SWA, unless that's the version with the folding stock and the pistol front grip that the infantry types usually have. Which is the one I had my little grubby eyes on and wished for for teh Advance Party sweeps... It would have been easier to use in the middle of the brush when the Opfor followed the OC's right up to us.

The L89 is the Australian version of the M249, set up similarly to the U.S. SEALs Mk46 Mod 0 version, though variations of barrel length and configuration are easy to rearrange with the Minimi. The Minimi paratrooper version buttstocks I've run across have been collapsing push-pull type rather than folding, though, but that too is something not too difficult to swap out. The Israeli Negev uses a side-folder, I wouldn't be surprised if something could be rearranged with one of them to work on a M249. The Israelis also have a couple of fairly neat Minimi versions, and there are still a lot of ideas about where and how to best place Picitinny rails on the M249 to best mount NVDs, day scopes and thermal viewers. Several different tripods are under development, too, as well as a pretty nifty twin-gun mount for vehicle pintles. There are some wood butt versions for those working in desert climes where a black plastic stock that's been in the noonday sun can leave an operator with burns on his cheek; I expect some of those now in Afghanistan and soon in Iraq might know a bit about that.

The Australian *Auscam* pattern pouches for linked belts for the M249, very reminiscent of the WWII Marine *Beachhead* pattern used during Pacific island-hopping tasks, is a handy means of carrying belts, too- certainly beats the Marine MOLLE vest/pack setup, in my book.

The L89 might be a bit light for use on the dinosaurs [think I'd use a FAMAS clarion if I had to take a 5,56mm], but I've got a little project coming up that a Minimi would be just swell for. Of course a FIST track could be real handy too, but I don't think I can fit one of those in the Conex *Toybox*.

[archy]

How can you even read what is on his flag patch? You mist have really good eyes. I had to stare at it up close and I think it says France.

Red Beret [beret rouge] and para brevet = French Army paras;
beret vert, [green beanie] para brevet drago and FAMAS clairion= French Foreign Legion paras, Regiment Parachutist du Legion Entrangere

Legio Patria Nostra,

-archy-/-

[archy]

Alllllll right!
(Where'd you find the jpg? And does it come on a Tee shirt?)

You're in luck. Right here you go!

-archy-/-

[SeenTheLight]

Thanks for the great posts Diogenesis!

Also, thanks to LindaSOG for your posts and especially this MEMRI article. This is the first time I've heard someone from a Muslim country speak out against anti-Semitism and Islamic terrorism.

And yes, maica, our media isn't telling us nearly enough about the near-revolution going on in Iran. Could it be that it doesn't fit with the liberal media's "all cultures are good cultures" perspective? Still, keep your eye on Iran, because big things are happening over there...

[Darksheare]

Sorry about the lag in responding, got busy yesterday.
Thanks for the link. Bookmarked and drooled over. (Tickles my sense of humor.)
Again, thanks.

[Darksheare]

Yeah, that IS the one I had on my adavnce party wish list.
I couldn't find it's nomen to put it on the wish list.
(My unit got screwed anyway. We got the 249's.. and had to send them back. The Cap said we had the 60's, they were enough. A smart man would have said, "NOW we got BOTH.")

Garn.. wish I'd been on FR before so I could've gotten that info.
'Course, the AP wish list also had MP5SD2/3's onit..

[archy]

Yeah, that IS the one I had on my advance party wish list.
I couldn't find it's nomen to put it on my wish list
(My unit got screwed anyway. We got the 249's.. and had to send them back.
The Cap said we had the 60's, they were enough. A smart man would have said, "NOW we got BOTH")

Garn.. wish I'd been on FR before so I could've gotten that info.
'Course the AP wish list also had MP5SD2/3's onit..

You're better off with a M16A2 or M4 with a nighttime AN/PVS4 and a Crane SpecWarMod or Ops Inc suppressor on it anyway; the MP5SD is a really limited piece of equipment.

As for the M249, a former airborne NCO and USAF parachute rigger pal of mine joined up with the Guard in the early 1980s, whereupon they made him a HQ company mess sergeant, to replace one who'd been stealing both food and equipment. After he got the missing material replaced and straightened out a few leadership problems within his mess section, his mess operation was the envy of the division, and when 9th Infantry first started testing the HUMMV, he ended up being detailed to them as one of the first to figure out how to outfit the new vehicles for use as frontline mess trucks, back in the days before the Hummer even had a tow pintle installed. The attaboys he got from that project were so impressive his battalion CO figured it was time to use him to solve another problem, and so he became the battalion S2 NCO.

At the time they were running the same more-or-less routine training exercises at the NG training area that took a day's drill time to get there and another to get back. He got the use of a state park for use as a close-in training area, and got the air hours to have one platoon of each company choppered in as *reinforcements* to their company already in place, getting his guys into the field instead of spending their drills on road marches. And instead of using the HQ company scout and mortar sections for aggressors, he got a bunch of members from the local AMVETS and VFW, conservation cops and members of the state search-and-rescue team, who he'd fed a few times as a mess boss. And they were not equipped or trained by the book.

We hit his battalion's HQ company on one of those exercises, and having drawn a pair of M60s, they figured they'd be hit by two platoons. Nope. We locked the guns up in a storage unit, and spread the ammo out among a couple of dozen folks with scoped .308 hunting rifles, and a platoon of WWII reenactors with blank-fring Mausers and German MG34 LMGs. After taking out 80% of the HQ co's officers and senior NCOs on the first day, the *German* platoon hit the remainder on the night of the second day and cleaned house.

That convinced their Battalion CO that they needed both the M249 SAWs they were authorized and the sniper rifles that had previously been a matter of telling one guy per platoon *you're the sniper* but providing no scope, training or additional equipment. That was about to change.

Since even most regular line units hadn't gotten the M249 then, he figured his immediate prospects were between *slim* and *none*...and found out he could draw M14s as sniper equipment, though they weren't scoped M21s. But he had this pal of his who'd been building match Garands, M14s and M21s at Crane, and he figured something could be worked out....

Instead of an M14 per platoon, he drew one per squad, plus a pair extra per platoon for the snipers...and there were still rifles leftover available. When he'd gotten all he could get ahold of, each of his SAW gunners had an M14 with a bipod and he had at least one scoped M14 per platoon in the hands of a guy who'd fired expert with the M16.

When the National Matches at Camp Perry came up that summer, his snipers went and shot their rifles for score at the nationals, and a few got tune-ups on the spot by the top AMU armorers in the country, and they got a ton of experience and good advice; some of the guys went on their own time, and still do- and his NG unit has M24s now. When the first M249s made it to his division, his line platoons were the first to get 'em, since they'd been working for more than a year with a 15-pound autorifle on a bipod...the real change for them was in having the gun beltfed and with changable spare barrels, but they had the squad moves and ammo bearing problems worked out long before. Shortly thereafter, the S2 NCO got himself another stripe and ended up the First Sergeant at that Headquarters Company we'd so thoroughly trounced before. The next time they went to the field, it was with a few more smiling faces than their TO&E authorized, and the aggressors expecting to hit a couple of understrength HQ Coy platoons instead got an overstrength company...and since they were hitting a leg Infantry HQ coy, hadn't bothered with bringing LAWS or TOWs along. They never expected a free-lance armored cav platoon in support....and yes, an M249 makes an acceptable co-ax gun for an old ex-treadhead.

Last I heard, the guy was a Bn Sgt Major. I wonder if he'll make CSM before he gets out....Not a Redleg, though.

-archy-/-

[Darksheare]

I figured MP5Sd/2-3's because Advance Party usually ran into people at less than 25 meters. And we usually found them with buddies around the corner, so the -16 was way too loud. An M-4 with a suppressor would have been a good choice, but it was still too long to swing around in the brush. (And sd2/3 is shorter, and more readily turned at someone behind you. A situation that is way uncomfortable with a 16.)

My unit didn't have much by the way of 'authroized' weaponry. And what we were authorized to have, the Captain had his own ideas about it.