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To: Sir Francis Dashwood; ALS; DouglasKC; Eagle Eye; Captiva
>As far as Christian doctrine is concerned, I think you make the mistake of using tactics of condemnation and not those of conviction. Have you the ability to understand the difference?

I well understand the difference between condemnation and conviction.  The devil condemns falsely but conviction is what happens when the Word hits a sinful heart that should repent.  Jesus Christ said:

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Under your definition above, you would probably say he used "tactics of condemnation."  He did not and neither do we.  We just quote Him.  The Word itself, has the authority of G~d Himself.  When the Word of G~d finds no place in them, people often try to "shoot the messenger."   They crucified Jesus Christ and said He was of the devil.  He promised that they would do the same to His followers.  His true followers are those who do what He says.  When people refuse to abide by His Word, He gives them over to blindness.  It may well be that the Holy Spirit is calling to you personally (because you see some things).  Consider it.  :)  One false doctrine in the church is that people cannot be cast away so that think that gives them license to sin.  Because they embrace that false doctrine it is as though they have a bag over their head blinding and deafening to the truth.  It is a demonic stronghold in their minds.

>Christ also defined His Church in the Gospels - - 'Wherever two or more of you are gathered for my namesake, there shall I be in your midst...' This is the Church as defined by your God.

Your one verse definition of who is a Christian doesn't cut it because it ignores that fact that many who say they are Christians are hypocrites.  So one hypocrite and one true Christian standing side by side does not define who is His true church.  A broad definition of who is a Christian would be anyone inside a church, yet similarly you can be in a garage and not be a car.  Jesus said that one would be taken and one left behind.  A hypocrite is defined in Greek as "a dissembler, one who disguises or conceals himself behind a false appearance."  The L~rd can tell the difference between true and false and judges each man according to his works.  If a man does evil, he is an evildoer.  If a man is unfaithful to his wife, he is an adulterer.  If a man worship idols, he is an idolator.

Jesus fed the thousands the loaves and fishes who were there for the blessings, yet all but a few left him when He said you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood.  They didn't understand what He meant about entering into His life and walking in holiness so they departed in unbelief.

246 posted on 12/24/2002 7:00:25 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
Under your definition above, you would probably say he used "tactics of condemnation."

The power to condemn is not yours. While I do agrre with you on many levels, this is where I draw the line with you sir.

-

The devil condemns falsely...

What is the "Devil" ???

I will refer you to someone who had a greater knowledge of the Bible and it's language than any human in history - - Thomas Hobbes:

Part III. Of a Christian Commonwealth.

Chap. xxxviii. Of Eternal Life, Hell, Salvation, and Redemption.

[12] And first, for the tormentors, we have their nature and properties exactly and properly delivered by the names of the Enemy (or Satan), the Accuser (or Diabolus), the Destroyer (or Abaddon). Which significant names (Satan, Devil, Abaddon) set not forth to us any individual person, as proper names do, but only an office or quality, and are therefore appellatives, which ought not to have been left untranslated (as they are in the Latin and modern Bibles), because thereby they seem to be the proper names of demons, and men are the more easily seduced to believe the doctrine of devils, which at that time was the religion of the Gentiles, and contrary to that of Moses, and of Christ.

[13] And because by the Enemy, the Accuser, and Destroyer, is meant the enemy of them that shall be in the kingdom of God, therefore if the kingdom of God after the resurrection be upon the earth (as in the former Chapter I have shewn by Scripture it seems to be), the Enemy and his kingdom must be on earth also. For so also was it in the time before the Jews had deposed God. For God's kingdom was in Israel, and the nations round about were the kingdoms of the Enemy; and consequently, by Satan is meant any earthly enemy of the Church.

Also consider this, from Hobbes' Leviathan, in 1668:

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness

Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness

[21] ...For from the time that the Bishop of Rome had gotten to be acknowledged for bishop universal, by pretence of succsession to St. Peter, their whole hierarchy (or kingdom of darkness) may be compared not unfitly to the kingdom of fairies (that is, to the old wives' fables in England, concerning ghosts and spirits and the feats they play in the night). And if a man consider the original of this ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire sitting crowned upon the grave thereof. For so did the Papacy start out of the ruins of that heathen power.

[22] The language also which they use (both in the churches and in their public acts) being Latin, which is not commonly used by any nation now in the world, what is it but the ghost of the old Roman language?

[23] The fairies, in what nation soever they converse, have but one universal king, which some poets of ours call King Oberon; but the Scripture calls Beelzebub, prince of demons. The ecclesiastics likewise, in whose dominions soever they be found, acknowledge but one universal king, the Pope.

[24] The ecclesiastics are spiritual men and ghostly fathers. The fairies and ghosts inhabit darkness, solitudes, and graves. The ecclesiastics walk in obscurity of doctrine,...

I have read the King James Bible extensively. You are attempting to interpret it based on no knowledge of the original language. Pay attention to this:

"Which significant names (Satan, Devil, Abaddon) set not forth to us any individual person, as proper names do, but only an office or quality..."

I challenge you to find a Biblical scholar who would dispute this. They cannot honestly say otherwise. I say you make great errors in some of your interpretations, although I do agree with your general perspectives on the issue here.

255 posted on 12/25/2002 5:52:02 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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