Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC
Read it however you like. There's only one correct interpetation though.
Actually, he relied upon misquoted Scripture....
Sounds like some legalists I know...
Coulda' fooled me.
but the use of human logic in interperting the bible lends itself to a unique brand of folly.
Then why did Paul rely so much on logic in his epistles? I'm not employing "human logic" in making my points, just using normal, everyday logic to demonstrate that with 2sheep's faulty circular reasoning, one could prove that anything is heresy.
My little brother, who is nearing his sixth birthday, has a rather mobile tree in his room. Unable to find a cedar or the like, we cut down a scraggly little yaupon, a shruby Southern member of the holly family, with pretty shiny little leaves, but not much of a Christmas tree. He has, so far, kept it in one place though I suspect it could wander if it (or he, rather) had the will. But some oddly placed boughs of holly and cedar encumber it, along with a strand of multi-coloured lights.
Absolutely right.
It says what it says, and what it says is clear. Some regard the day unto the Lord, others do not regard the day unto the Lord. They are His servants, and they will stand before Him because He is able to make them stand.
Okay, good luck and God bless...
We fail when we try to constrain God's ways to our own ideas that seem logical or reasonable to us. That is when we devise ideas on God purely on our own thought, without asking of Him or of Scripture. But that does not mean we are to suspend all thought in our faith; in fact, by faith we come to much higher knowledge and thought. We do not aspire to the emptiness of mind of the Buddhist, but rather to a transformation of mind in Christ, by which we think in Him so to speak.
And deductive logic is certainly good to use with Scripture, for without it we would be left askance at many things. We are not told what the proper way to vote in a given election is, nor, I imagine, is God going to send me a word of prophecy on a matter of that sort. Instead, we see from Scripture what a good leader is, and deductively conclude whom we should vote for- but we also temper that with prayer and meditation, as should any such decision.
You need to re-read my post where I explained Christians gathering together during Saturnalia and what they did. I mentioned gifts, food and singing.
Neither Christ nor His apostles or the 1st church participated in these pagan practices, so it doesn't take a slide rule to figure out from whence they came.
I do not recall where scripture indicates Christ or his apostles participated in sporting tournaments either. The Olympics originated in pagan greece. The athletes competed nude. There was a strong current of homosexuality and pagan fertility associated with the games. Does that mean Christians should not participate in track and field competition or the the olympics? Did you read my previous post about the necktie? Did you read in my post about celebratory toasting? If you are going to be legalistic, don't do so in a cafeteria style picking and choosing. Quit wearing neckties. If you're out at a banquet and your manager stands up and offers a toast to you for a job well done, get up and walk away. Don't have any part in such pagan practice. Don't be inconsistent in your legalisms.
The bible lays out principles for living The fact that you used the word "tradition" shows that these rituals were either made up or just continuations of previous heathen rituals.
When referring to traditions, please be more specific. Actually, here's a short list for you to respond to:
A. Getting together with friends and family.
B. Enjoying special meals with friends and family.
C. Exchanging gifts.
D. Singing.
E. Decorations. Before you go into a long thesis about evergreens inside the house, do you have any plants inside your house?
If His birthday was such an important event, why did neither He nor any of his followers observe it? The answer is because it was a pagan practice to celebrate yourself.
If birthdays weren't important, why is so much of the bible devoted to detailed geneologies? Christ lived to be 33 1/2 years old so, his birthday was obviously once known and tracked although shortly after the gospels it was lost in history.
Also, birthday parties are typically held by friends and family for the person having the birtday. I do agree celebrating oneself is wrong.
The bible makes it clear throughout to not do as the heathens do.
I already went into this and expect that you are consistent in your legalism and do not wear a necktie, that you neither give nor allow yourself to be the recipient of a toast and that you avoid sporting activities, especially track and field events.
Am looking forward to your reply.
Ok perhaps I missed something.
Then I would suggest that you study what the differences would have been in the 1st century between Jews who did not believe the messiah had come as opposed to Jews who believed the messiah had come.
Ugh! You must think I'm retired with plenty of free time on my hands. Why not give a brief explanation and perhaps a comparison with modern day pre-millenialists -vs- millenialists.
Just as an aside on this, if anyone is brave enough...look up the Satanic Bible on the internet and examine which holiday is the highest holy day in Satanism.
Why not go ahead and tell us. I'd be interested inknowing but have too many other things to do at the moment.
There is no reason that I should be of any less joyous than those around me, whether they are saved and worshipping a secular/pagan season, or the saved partaking in pagan celebrations and untrue church traditions.
What I find interesting is how 'Christians' will act for two weeks of the year the way that they should act all year.
There are some things that God told Isreal not to do, many of which closely resemble traditional xmas celebrations. Yet, despite God telling Isreal not to do these things and with nothing that specifically gives the NT church any approval, NT 'believers' want to cling to these practices.
If I have a party at my house on Oct 31, decorate with black and orange and scary masks and costumes, will this be anything other than a Halloween celebration even if we say we aren't celebrating Halloween?
If in the spring we have celebrations with eggs, bunnies and other fertility symbols, are we worshipping Christ or Dianna/Aster?
I don't think that one can use the tools of the pagans to worship El Shaddai.
Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
I left FR for a few hours and came back to see that the heathen still rage and the people imagine a vain thing. You three have stedfastly stood against the specious arguments of the spirit of Jannes and Jambres and for that I commend you. The Holy Spirit is trying to restore truth to a church which has exalted itself above measure and is right in its own eyes. Individuals who know in their spirit that there is something dreadfully wrong in the world, the nation and the church should put an axe to sin in their own life and seek the L~rd. There is big trouble coming and too few are aware of it and are not prepared. There are many links on this thread to help anyone get info as to the pagan roots of Christmas. Hopefully some will investigate those links. What is coming down in the world soon will make what one thinks about Christmas and pagan roots of little effect.
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
The doctrine that G~d loves children so much that they will not be judged is in direct opposition to what the Bible says. The Flood destroyed everyone but Noah and his family of eight souls. It is error to think God doesn't bring judgment on children. Read Deut. 28 and Lev. 26. The G~d of the Bible is holy and He exercises lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth. Jer 9:24.
Gen. 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14 Make thee an ark...
Read of the cause (sin) and effect (storms) here:
Don McAlvany's Storm Warning Special Report
God's Perfect Storm Warning by John McTernan - 6/13/01
The whole world should have taken note on November 1 when the headline read "Quake Kills 23 in Central Italy" and we saw the biblical number of death, 23, posted yet again. It cannot have been a coincidence that Jezebel's children died celebrating a satanic feast. Judgment starts at the house of G~d. Those who believe must do so in a manner that reflects what G~d says rather than what the world says. True believers are to believe the Bible and not fables, myths and lies.
Quake Kills 23 in Central Italy
Friday, November 1, 2002; 2:25 AM
SAN GIULIANO DI PUGLIA, Italy –– An earthquake jolted south-central Italy on Thursday, sending a nursery school roof crashing down on a class of preschoolers during a lunchtime Halloween party. At least 23 people were killed, nearly all of them children at the school, firefighters said. ...Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jesus speaking here: Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel [see post #20], which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
We have seen headlines which indicate the parents in Italy whose children were killed in the earthquake are "angry" and are looking for whom to blame in the incident above. Often in the same sentence which reports that the parents are angry, it says the children were "celebrating Halloween." Those parents are completely ignorant of the satanic base of that unholy day and assume wrongly that G~d smiles at their disobedience.
Many people hold the erroneous belief (because they believe false doctrines in the church instead of believing the Bible), that G~d loves children so much that they will not be judged when the Biblc clearly indicates otherwise. The death of a child is not always, but can be a judgment against the parents as in Deut. 28 where the curse of disobedience is that parents would eat their children. Compare that to abortion and its horrors such as selling their body parts for use in cosmetics or using fetal tissue in smallpox vaccine!
In the verses below, children mocked the prophet of G~d, probably because their parents mocked the prophet of G~d and in doing so, mocked G~d Himself. Their taunt "go up, thou bald head" may indicate they were referring to Elisha's predecessor, Elijah, who did go up in a chariot of fire. In response to this mockery G~d proved that He will not be mocked and tare the children. In the Bible people had not only a correct fear of G~d but also a fear of His prophets. At other times they killed them, of course.
2Ki 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Yes, He did it or allowed it. The God who has His eye on every sparrow knows and controls the fall of every tree and tower and liberty and country and the death of every child. He is painting enormous pictures in the earth and in events and calling people to seek Him for what they mean. Pr 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
If people do not understand, then they should REPENT, cultivate an appropriate fear of the Lord, and read His Book to see what He requires of them. Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that dohis commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
The question should not be who to sue, but rather as Paul asked, "What would you have me do, Lord?" The L~rd said the following twice after a tower fell and He wasn't being mean and hateful:
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
[repeated for emphasis]
Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Repentance should be the order of the day and in high style, but it is not.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
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