CA: Plastic pipe ban is ruled illegal

Sac Bee ^ | 12/21/02 | Aurelio Rojas

[Jhoffa_]

Does it have the freeze resistance that Quest had? THAT was handy!

Are we talking about the same (or similar) tubing with a different (brass) coupler here?

[Petronski]

Be albe to decide for yourselves? Of course.

[FRMAG]

As to IL I cannot say but in NY especially NYC what is required is steel conduit or steel armored cable. Simple reason, the rats consider the insulation like after dinner mints. Its a simple matter of rat proofing the wiring to prevent the chances of a fire caused by a short.

[america-rules]

"I'm not sure I understand how this works. Do the unions get some type of percentage or commission? "

They take a cut of the wages per hour. For example, my brother makes $27.50 per hour (works in concrete) but the union takes their cut and he actually gets about $18 per hour.

There are some benefits so it doesn't all fo to the union. Th retirement fund gets $.90 per hour for the retirement fund and some goes to unemployment etc..

[Darksheare]

Saw a guy burn down a house under construction while brazing copper pipe.
Kinda funny. He comes running out and then non-chalantly walks away like nothing was wrong...

[Hacksaw]

But, this absolute fact, the stuff could have negative environmental effects! Take a six foot length of the stuff and wrap the first six inches of one end with black tape. Then, grasping the taped end (and, assuming you have a reasonable eye and reasonable hand/eye coordination), swing from the heels at every spotted owl you see. Every time you hit one, chalk up an environmental effect. Similarly, a truckload of the stuff, if driven at speeds approximating 100mph, could really damage endangered plant life, for example.

You can also make a nice tennis ball cannon, since steel beer cans are no longer made.

[Hacksaw]

I would think copper pipe would have more environmental impact than plastic.

It is usually stolen and sold for scrap before it can end up in a dump.

[Gorzaloon]

The biggest risk is, if you are an idiot and light yourself on fire.

..Or like a certain relative, who set the wall on fire.

[snopercod]

I'm not familiar with "Quest".

[fella]

"The Davis administration has denied the governor exerted any influence on the panel, whose members he appoints.

Is it just me or is there something really wrong with this sentence?

[MineralMan]

Sure, assuming that the house is being custom-built for you. What about spec houses? PEX may be the best thing since sliced bread...I don't know, frankly, having been out of the business for some years. But...it also may not be. I remember when the same arguments were used for CVPC for hot water piping. Turned out that that stuff was crap, and even possibly toxic.

Try replumbing a house if you want some real expensive hassles. If I were buying a spec house, I would not buy it if it had any plastic pipe in the walls. I'd ask, then walk if it was there. Copper will last a lifetime. Should the government be telling us what goes into our houses? Well, it's been doing that for many decades. Building codes are just that. No doubt there are things in there that shouldn't be, but the idea is good. Frankly, you have no idea what's inside the walls of a spec house. You can't see inside the walls. Without properly-enforced building codes, you would not believe what would pass for construction standards. The government has a role in this.

[mvpel]

PEX is cross-linked polyethylene - the molecules in the plastic are arranged like a chain-link fence, so there's much higher strength.

I looked into a brand called AquaPEX from Wirsbo - the installation is a little more complex than PVC, requring special tools and fittings. It looks like radiant floor heating is one of its main applications.

[B Knotts]

PEX is neat stuff. We're on a shared spring here with a few neighbors, and we needed something to go above ground over a creek. PEX is just the thing, as it will not break even if it freezes. The fittings will break before the pipe.

You use this funky tool and a put a crimp ring over your pipe at the end, and just expand them with the tool. Then, slip it on to the fitting, and hold it there for a minute. It will shrink back down securely on the fitting. No sealant or soldering; you're done. Neat stuff.

[SierraWasp]

Duck! Owl... Duck!

What about the environmental effects of mining all that copper? Haven't they closed the mines over in Elko NV? Maybe we could drill off the CA coast to get just enough hydrocarbons to make PEX pipe out of, now that it's been made legal. Oh, I know, now I've gone too far!!! (grin)

[Grampa Dave]

These are two reasons why the unions hate Pex, what you posted:

1. PEX is neat stuff. We're on a shared spring here with a few neighbors, and we needed something to go above ground over a creek. PEX is just the thing, as it will not break even if it freezes. The fittings will break before the pipe.

2. You use this funky tool and a put a crimp ring over your pipe at the end, and just expand them with the tool. Then, slip it on to the fitting, and hold it there for a minute. It will shrink back down securely on the fitting. No sealant or soldering; you're done. Neat stuff.

PEX is basically freeze proof. About ten years ago we had a hard freeze. I had one copper pipe burst and a neighbor had a major 1 1/2 inch copper pipe burst. I could repair my with a temp repair patch/kit. The neighbor was on vacation, and I had to shut his water off at the main. When he returned he and his wife had to spend two nights at a motel before they could get a plumber to replace a few feet of busted copper pipe.

Later a friend helped me to replace the exposed copper pipe in my carport shed with PEX. He had one of those funky tools, and I could not believe how easy it all worked. He uses PEX in his vineyard with tool and has never had a PEX pipe burst from freezing.

[supercat]

In my parents' neighborhood, the in-ground gas feed pipes (the ones that go from the main into each house) are plastic. One of my parents' neighbors discovered that when burning leaves in a drainage ditch. I didn't see the results, but they were supposedly pretty spectacular. Far enough away from the house to avoid damage there, fortunately.

[6AL-4V]

Copper doesn't last a lifetime in Florida. Many houses plumbed with copper must be replumbed with plastic, in as little as 15 years. Hard water? I don't know. The houses I build here in Georgia are plumbed with flowguard gold. Faster to install and no waiting for the water to get get hot coming out of a tap due to thermal loss.

[Don W]

Legal nonsense notwithstanding < G > I cannot drink the water from plastic piping. I am well aware that it (plastic piping) is supposed to be "totally odourless" etc, but *I* can taste the plastic, and it disgusts me.

Copper ions however, *are* known to be vital to overall health, and may play a part in retaining hair color.

I don't know about you, but keeping my hair brown matters to those who enjoy it. My younger brother already has bits of grey, but even my mustache is still one colour.

(BTW, I donate my hair so kids with cancer can have wigs).

[Colorado Doug]

Anyone know the difference between PEX and PVC?

I like PEX much more. It's flexible and can be assembled with crimp-rings. The fittings are cheap and the system seems more robust because it's not as prone to cracking. I even use a vinyl-aluminum-vinyl PEX composite for underground utilities. It comes in a roll instead of sticks. I really like it better than copper for underground.

Here is a picture from the website of a PEX company.

[Colorado Doug]

Perhaps this new product is a hybrid of that sort?

The fittings are much better. The old poly-butyl-propyline was really pretty good pipe. The week link was indeed the connectors. I was once using a rock trencher and snagged some of the stuff. It ripped it out of the ground, stretched it, wrapped it around my 16 foot trencher chain but never ruptured it. It was under pressure and never leaked a drop. A copper or PVC line would have been torn in two by the trencher teeth grinding it against the granite. But back to PEX, fittings are available in brass and even red bronze or some kind of plastic, which I avoid. You can even use compression fittings on it. I like it because it's more abrasion resistant and doesn't kink as easy as copper. It's much lighter to work with too. I don't use PVC underground for pressure applications. I have just seen too much of it break if the ground shifts a little. I use Kitec brand because it has a vinyl wrapped, aluminum core with more vinyl on the inside.