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To: FormerRep
I need to respond to this.

First, it is patently unfair to hold a film to the book. The mediums are different and Tolkiens use of exposition is impossible to convey clearly in film. So point 10 is moot in my opinion.

Second, if you are to compare the book to the film, read the book first. Gimli was spouting one-liners in the book, he was funny in a "Alright! Now I get to kill orcs!" kind of way. Legolas was supposed to possess super-human agility and dexterity. (The "surfing" wasn't near as bad as the out of context commercials made it appear.)

Third, the elven scenes I thought were very well done. The movie makes it appear (although those who know the books know differently) that Arwen accepted her Father's wishes and left Middle-Earth. This is important as she is Aragorn's inspiration and his hope. The elves represent the people that men wish they could be and their departure puts the mantle of that goodness and greatness on the weak shoulders of the human race. Do you think that Elrond doesn't have a scrying device like Galadriel has her mirror? It's very possible that they indeed could communicate over long distances.

Fourth, I think the change in personality in Sam and Frodo could possibly be caused by the Ring and the hard traveling and lack of food and water, don't you? Aragorn I think stepped up into a leadership role and Gandalf had obviously been transformed into a different incarnation.

Fifth, the Urak-hai army arrived, but we did not get a good look at every block in that army. The light infantry arrived first, then the baggage trains. Basic military procedure for marches.

Sixth, the Urak-hai who came in contact with the horses on the causeway didn't die, they were knocked off the causeway! You try and take a shoulder check from a good sized horse and see if it doesn't push you back a step or two. Sadly, the Urak-hai were on a narrow piece of stone arched high off the ground. The horse "nudged" them and off they went.

This is clearly what I was talking about. People remember the most insignificant things that irritate them and they get blown up because of how good the movie was. I would like to know what scenes in particular were washed out, I'll look for them next time.

You should look for the boom mic dropping into view in The Sixth Sense when the boy and his mother are sitting in the car and he reveals his secret to her. Doesn't ruin the movie, not even worth noting, but a couple of "washed out" scenes were worth complaining about?

26 posted on 12/19/2002 9:06:23 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
In the first film, I kept expecting Elrond to say, "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
40 posted on 12/19/2002 9:26:41 AM PST by My2Cents
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
I'll happily debate this with you, friend.

*First, it is patently unfair to hold a film to the book. The mediums are different and Tolkiens use of exposition is impossible to convey clearly in film. So point 10 is moot in my opinion.*

- This runs counter to PJ's stated goal.


*Second, if you are to compare the book to the film, read the book first. Gimli was spouting one-liners in the book, he was funny in a "Alright! Now I get to kill orcs!" kind of way. Legolas was supposed to possess super-human agility and dexterity. (The "surfing" wasn't near as bad as the out of context commercials made it appear.)*

- I've read them to my children for 20 years, and another 10 before then just for myself. The one liner issue was only a problem when it fell out of context - Gimli prat falls from a horse and says "I meant to do that?" or "Toss me - just don't tell the elf." Hardly defensable mischaracterizations. That may play for the teen crowd but not me. Same with the stair surf - Legolas was otherwise played superbly.

*Third, the elven scenes I thought were very well done. The movie makes it appear (although those who know the books know differently) that Arwen accepted her Father's wishes and left Middle-Earth. This is important as she is Aragorn's inspiration and his hope.*
- even in the absense of anything in the appendix of the novels these scenes meant nothing and had nothing to offer to the story.

*The elves represent the people that men wish they could be and their departure puts the mantle of that goodness and greatness on the weak shoulders of the human race. Do you think that Elrond doesn't have a scrying device like Galadriel has her mirror? It's very possible that they indeed could communicate over long distances.*
- the mirror is not a two way intercom.

* Fourth, I think the change in personality in Sam and Frodo could possibly be caused by the Ring and the hard traveling and lack of food and water, don't you?*
- maybe for Frodo (but he waffled back and forth) but not Sam, who remains calm and stalwart. When he jerk the rope and slams Gollum to the ground that is an uncharacteristic act of cruelty totally out of line with his character.

*Aragorn I think stepped up into a leadership role and Gandalf had obviously been transformed into a different incarnation.*
- the moment Gandalf returned Aragorn stopped doing anything remotely leader-like. I never mentioned any problem with Gandlaf other than the constant grinning.

*Fifth, the Urak-hai army arrived, but we did not get a good look at every block in that army. The light infantry arrived first, then the baggage trains. Basic military procedure for marches.*
- that would be basic procedure. But there are 3 wide shots of the entire force - no baggage - no pack animals - no siege ladders held overhead for a long march. The ladders were metal so they weren't cut and made locally.

*Sixth, the Urak-hai who came in contact with the horses on the causeway didn't die, they were knocked off the causeway! You try and take a shoulder check from a good sized horse and see if it doesn't push you back a step or two. Sadly, the Urak-hai were on a narrow piece of stone arched high off the ground. The horse "nudged" them and off they went.*
- watch it again. Some fall off, most don't. They lay down on the bridge and don't get up. I've seen rodeo clowns get flipped into the air and land on their backs yet still jump up and run. And they aren't bloodthirsty killers wearing armor.

*This is clearly what I was talking about. People remember the most insignificant things that irritate them and they get blown up because of how good the movie was. I would like to know what scenes in particular were washed out, I'll look for them next time.*

- There is more than just a few insignificant problems here. The white outs occur 3 times in Theoden's Castle and twice in Helms Deep. Look for a white-over sepia wash.

*You should look for the boom mic dropping into view in The Sixth Sense when the boy and his mother are sitting in the car and he reveals his secret to her. Doesn't ruin the movie, not even worth noting, but a couple of "washed out" scenes were worth complaining about?*
- a boom drop is doesn't ruin the story - bad editting does.


44 posted on 12/19/2002 9:29:48 AM PST by FormerRep
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
People remember the most insignificant things that irritate them and they get blown up because of how good the movie was.

Very true. Some people are born crumudgeons. Negative, negative, negative. These folks will find fault with the actual Second Coming of Jesus.

45 posted on 12/19/2002 9:32:01 AM PST by My2Cents
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