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College Seniors No More Knowledgeable Than 1950s High School Grads
CNSNEWS.com ^ | 12/19/02 | Scott Hogenson

Posted on 12/19/2002 3:08:50 AM PST by kattracks

(CNSNews.com) - The college seniors of today have no better grasp of general knowledge than the high school graduates of almost half a century ago, according to the results of a new study.

The average of correct responses for modern college seniors on a series of questions assessing "general cultural knowledge" was 53.5 percent compared with 54.5 percent of high school graduates in 1955, according to a survey by Zogby International.

The Zogby poll of 401 randomly selected college seniors was conducted in April for the Princeton, N.J.-based National Association of Scholars and released Wednesday.

"The average amount of knowledge that college seniors had was just about the same as the average amount of knowledge that high school graduates had back in the 1950s," said NAS President Stephen H. Balch.

Balch noted that the high school grads of half a century ago performed better than today's college seniors on history questions, while contemporary students fared better on questions covering art and literature, with no appreciable difference on geography questions.

The questions asked in the April poll by Zogby were virtually the same as questions asked by the Gallup Organization in 1955, with a few questions being slightly modified to reflect history.

"The questions were just about identical, as identical as we could make them," said Balch. "In most cases, they were absolutely identical."

Balch attributed the stagnation of performance on general knowledge questions to several factors, including a decreased emphasis on general knowledge in high school, placing colleges and universities in the position of having to fill academic gaps among students entering college.

"This is fundamental knowledge that everyone should have and if your students are being admitted without it, then that only reinforces the need for you to take general education seriously," Balch said.

But Balch said he didn't consider such actions to be remedial in nature, noting that "the remedial problems have to do with students not being able to write or read at the eighth grade level and still getting into college. There are many institutions in which that's a difficulty. You have people who just don't have the skills let alone the knowledge."

Even though the NAS study raises questions about the caliber of general education offered in high schools, colleges and universities also bear some responsibility, Balch said.

"I think it probably has a lot to do with the dumbing down of curriculum, both at the college and high school level," said Balch. "It looks good, certainly, to say 'more people are graduating from college,' but is there any real intellectual yield from it?"

Also part of the problem is that many colleges are placing less emphasis on liberal arts education in favor of more specialized education geared toward specific career paths, which Balch said isn't necessarily in the best interest of students or society.

"I think these results, which don't seem to show a great deal of value-added in the general cultural knowledge domain - I think these results are quite interesting and disappointing," said Balch. "We would hope that the college students of today would have done a good deal better than the high school students of the past."

Also contributing to the trend is an easing of college admissions standards. While Balch doesn't advocate a return to standards requiring competency in Greek or Latin, he does say colleges should "insist that the student coming have basic areas of knowledge."

A solid background in general knowledge, Balch said, is "very important both for good citizenship and, for many people at least, for a happy and interesting life," by providing students with what Balch called "cultural furniture that allows them to be better citizens."

Click here to read the general knowledge questions.

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: educationnews
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To: SamAdams76
You are talking about exceptional people of each generation -- the group that the late black NAACP cofounder and communist W.E.B. Du Bois called the "talented tenth." As far as average "students," academic performance is abysmal and is likely to remain that way. Perhaps it has always been abysmal.
101 posted on 12/19/2002 6:38:09 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: ikka
I can say without hesitation that many of them should never have been admitted. Of the ones that were there, I would say that only half were educated well enough to attend. I used to joke that many of them should be in college, but only as janitorial help.

It used to be that most people would go from high-school directly into the working world. Most businesses didn't care if you had a college degree, as long as you could read and write well -- what you needed to know, you could look up and study as needed.

What changed between the 60's and today was the passage of the various the Civil Rights Acts. These days YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to give any sort of written test to job applicants, if such would have a "disparate racial impact" (and just about any test would). So, an employer wanting to get applicants who can read must now specify "college degree" on the requirements, in order to get somebody who can read. But this will not be good enough any more, because the illiterates are being given degrees now by colleges with seats to fill.

If businesses could hire literate people straight out of high school, they would -- but they can't, because they would be forced to hire from the high school crowd "by the numbers" or be sued for discrimination

102 posted on 12/19/2002 6:38:16 AM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: PJ-Comix
little kids lived in constant terror of THE BOMB back then. DUCK AND COVER!

How fondly I remember being marched into the school hallways and told sit with my back against the wall and put my head between my knees. It was a nice diversion from rigorous studies.

103 posted on 12/19/2002 6:38:40 AM PST by TheRightGuy
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To: Hank Kerchief
Good grief, anyone who cannot answer all these questions is an ignoramous.

I hate you.

And my blondeness has nothing to do with it.

104 posted on 12/19/2002 6:39:49 AM PST by Nita Nuprez
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To: SamAdams76
You seem to have your decades mixed up.
I was a college freshman in 1963...There were no dope smoking kids then. I do remember a few girls that hang out in the Presby center, dressed in black and reading "ban the bomb" books, but that was about all. The bad stuff did not get going till mid to late 60s.
At least high school grads could read a diploma and find their own state on a map.
I see no relation to your remarks about the computer stuff that was not even around in those days. To another poster...There was not even DOS in the 50s :P
There is no doubt that todays pubic school grads are more
ignorant then in any other time.
105 posted on 12/19/2002 6:40:20 AM PST by AlexW
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To: jimtorr
Our young new-hires all have excellent technical knowledge and skills. Some of them, though, have only the vaugest notion of American history and government.

Better than the other way around, heh? We live in a specialized world, and given how unionized and politicized the pedantic proffession is nowadays, I'd say you were fortunate to get what you got. At least they make good workers.

106 posted on 12/19/2002 6:43:05 AM PST by Nonstatist
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To: lonestar
As a junior he hooked up his mother's stove so that a phone call home turned the oven on.

Pretty neat, but could a telemarketer then be prosecuted for arson? :)

107 posted on 12/19/2002 6:44:24 AM PST by CanisMajor2002
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To: kattracks
I'll bet today's kids are worse off in the area of morals.
108 posted on 12/19/2002 6:45:36 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: kattracks
Another favorite
The teacher in Arkansas asked her class, "Now, who can tell me who our president was during the Civil War?"

A little boy raised his hand. "Yes, Johnny?" said the teacher.

"Jefferson Davis," the boy said proudly. And no one could argue with that.


109 posted on 12/19/2002 6:53:36 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: MrNeutron1962
MrNeutron,

While I agree you can manipulate results, there is little doubt in my mind that when it comes to civics and history, todays students knowledge pails compared to the pre cultural revolution. Because it was during that time that the schools started to become filled with counter counturalist teachers, or at least those sympathtic to the cause, and the "america is bad" philosophy entered the school systems.

General knowledge of american history, geopolitical impact, and social greatness let alone the unparalleled opportunities the sum of these things has offered us all, is abysmal at best by the products of government schools today.
110 posted on 12/19/2002 6:53:57 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: chilepepper
"This is hogwash. Todays college seniors know how opressive the whiteman is, all about african history, marxist gramscian dialetic, not to mention gay and lesbian philosophy and how evil corporations caused global warming. An of course, they are well versed in how to be good citizens of the United Nations..."

Not to mention that they're multilingual. After all, they're fluent in slang, Ebonics, liberal Newspeak, Political Correctish. They can't speak English, though...

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

111 posted on 12/19/2002 6:58:41 AM PST by wku man
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To: Chemist_Geek
I just may not take your advice and pose the question to my 25 year old brother, a senior in college, and my 15 yr old brother, a high school sophomore, at Christmas.

We'll see...
112 posted on 12/19/2002 7:00:02 AM PST by conservativemusician
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To: Nita Nuprez
I hate you.

And my blondeness has nothing to do with it.

I do appreciate frankness, and blondness, but have grave doubts about your hate, because I suspect disingenuousness in your self-deprecation.

(However, in case I'm wrong, what I just said is a complement.)

Hank

113 posted on 12/19/2002 7:00:29 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: kattracks
I can attest to this. My incoming freshment NEVER have a clue as to where the "Austro-Hungarian Empire" was; who might have been president in, say, the late 1880s; or (sometimes) even what "emancipation" means. Some of us fight, but it does appear to be a losing battle.
114 posted on 12/19/2002 7:02:12 AM PST by LS
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To: Aquinasfan
King of Prussia, PA was named for an inn that was in existence around the time of the American Revolution. The inn is still in existence; I believe it was recently moved (the historical society has been raising money to do so for years). It sat in a very busy median of Route 202 near the largest mall on the east coast. A lot of research has been done on the origins of the name of that jurisdiction and there is no definitive answer. But the inn seems to have been the first to have used it and the concensus is that the town named itself after the inn.
115 posted on 12/19/2002 7:04:12 AM PST by twigs
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To: TheRightGuy
Wow. A flashback.

I'd nearly forgotten air-raid drills.
116 posted on 12/19/2002 7:05:10 AM PST by conservativemusician
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To: SamAdams76
Sam, as one who teaches young adults (college) daily, I can tell you that this BS that they are more "worldly" is nonsense. The fact that they SEE Cancun on an MTV "vacation" special no more makes them knowledgable about where it is, why it might be important, who what language they speak there than it makes me a car because I walk into my garage.

As for the "spreadsheet" argument, it is shocking, but these kids cannot even add/subtract/ or multiply basic numbers BECAUSE they "let the computer do it." But if you don't have the theory as to how to find the angle of a plane, all the computers in the world won't solve the problem for you.

At UD, we have a STRONG committment to "overseas" and "foreign" experiences, but I find that it is like a sponge bath. These kids don't LEARN cultures, yet they think they have "experienced" them.

Sorry, I wish I had better news, but the students I have observed, PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST 6-7 years, have gotten progressively WORSE---VERY shallow. Minute-task oriented, but little creativity of thought, and NO intellectual inqusitiveness. When I taught high school seniors in the early 1980s, they were much better!

117 posted on 12/19/2002 7:07:36 AM PST by LS
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To: cynicom
Most appalling is the fact that he cannot write. He has to print everything and that is acceptable.

While the lack of knowledge is bad, what the heck does not being able to write (I'm assuming cursive) have to do with the price of tea in China? I detested cursive in early elementary school, and my refusal to learn it was going to get me held back until my mom had a meeting and laid down the law.

While I can write in cursive, its not pretty, but for damn sure everyone can read my printed field notes now while I have to have a translator for some of the chicken scratch "writing" I have to plow through.

118 posted on 12/19/2002 7:07:39 AM PST by Axenolith
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To: MrNeutron1962
Me thinks your over-hyped, knowledge-deficient college degreed ego has been bruised by the truth, eh?
119 posted on 12/19/2002 7:11:36 AM PST by A2J
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To: Axenolith
My left-handed chicken scratch is somewhat akin to heiroglyphics and I happily inflict upon everyone.LOL

Quality penmanship is not necessarily an indication of one's education. :)
120 posted on 12/19/2002 7:14:58 AM PST by conservativemusician
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