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1 posted on 12/16/2002 7:49:48 AM PST by 1bigdictator
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To: 1bigdictator
It's good for an article to point out that the State of Israel is theologically problematic, and not simple at all, for both Jewish and Christian theology.

But some of the points Wheatcroft makes here are too facile, such as:

For most of the period between Antiquity and the 20th century, the Welsh would pass the test of national identity — territory, language, cultural homogeneity, even ‘race’ — much more easily than the Jews. Ardent Welsh nationalists think that Wales should be an independent nation-state. I don’t, and neither do most people in Wales, but that doesn’t make me an anti-Welsh bigot who denies the right of the Welsh to exist, or make them ‘self-hating Welshmen’.

Granted. But those who oppose Welsh nationalism are generally middle-class Tory Britons. The worst thing they'd ever do to a Welsh nationalist is tell a Welsh joke within his earshot and vote against Plaid Cymru in the next election.

They wouldn't strap dynamite to their son, disguise him with a silver trombone and send him into the middle of a local leek festival.

3 posted on 12/16/2002 10:45:12 AM PST by wideawake
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To: 1bigdictator
This would be all well and good if the year was 1906 or 1920.

But it isn't, the year is 2002 and Israel celebrated the 52th anniversary of its founding.

Deal with it, Mr. Wheatcroft.
4 posted on 12/16/2002 11:08:36 AM PST by tictoc
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To: 1bigdictator; wideawake; tictoc
And yet, if criticism of Israel — however stringent, however vehement, however unfair even — is construed as anti-Semitism, then this must represent a huge failure on the part of Zionism.

Yep, it's the JOOOOS fault, not the criticizers, and their failures.

Was Zionism really the answer to the ‘Jewish Question’ — or was it a further complication?

Complication to whom? And for whom? To this writer's perception of how the world should be ordered? Yep, those pesky Jews. Truly they are a unique nation - who has such obsessive critics?

5 posted on 12/16/2002 12:31:01 PM PST by Shermy
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To: 1bigdictator
Dennis Miller on palestinians

A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.

Don't thank me. I'm a giver. Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no “Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: “Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals.

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight.

We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan. (Hey, wait a minute, that's actually not such a bad id . . . ooh, that is, what a horrible thought, yeah, horrible.)"



6 posted on 12/16/2002 1:52:45 PM PST by Saundra Duffy
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