Extracting the Poison From White Racism: How to defuse white nationalism's growing appeal

New York Times ^ | 12-14-02 | Felecia R. Lee

[SJackson]

Carol M. Swain, a professor of both political science and law at Vanderbilt University, has studied racial attitudes for more than a decade. Her latest book, "The New White Nationalism in America: Its Challenge to Integration" (Cambridge University Press, 2002), argues that white nationalism is on the rise. To defuse its appeal, she counsels African-Americans to stop supporting affirmative action and reparations. Felicia R. Lee spoke with her.

You argue that an energized white separatist movement exists, despite polls that show more racial tolerance and an increasingly diverse popular culture. Why?

A lot of white people feel that diversity is being forced on them and it comes at their expense.

For example, in one of my focus groups with whites from the New York area — men and women of different ages — they were very angry. One person said employers will not take white males when they have to take blacks, Hispanics and Chinese; that there were quotas; that blacks could go to schools like Yale before whites; that blacks were lazy.

Blacks saw quotas as a ceiling and were angry about affirmative action, too. They said affirmative action was the receptionist out front and the guy who fixes the copy machine.

Racial extremists have a long history in this country. Why sound alarm bells now?

A constellation of forces are coming together at this point in time that we've never had before. There is the projection that non-Hispanic whites will be the minority around the year 2050. There's economic uncertainty, with a recession and globalization and loss of jobs. An immigration policy that means that some immigrants do compete with Americans for jobs. Racial preferences, a policy never accepted by the majority of whites. Continued white fear of black crime. And the ability of the Internet to reach people who want information about white nationalism.

Historically, rapid demographic changes and economic uncertainty put people on a collision course and lead to social ills.

Senator Trent Lott is under fire for saying that the United States would be better off if Strom Thurmond had won the presidency on the segregationist platform in 1948. Should he resign?

I think Trent Lott should lead the national debate on race. If we're going to have a serious discussion, we need people to say what's on their minds. I don't think he should step down. If we attack these people when they put their feet in their mouths, we can never get to the root of the problem.

Is the specter of whites as a minority the biggest race card the racists play?

Yes. They say that your children and grandchildren will be submerged in these teeming masses of people that don't share your values, don't share your culture. It's very dangerous that white nationalists are the only ones talking in open forums about what it might mean for white people being a minority in America.

You yourself overcame the disadvantages of being black, poor, a high-school dropout. And now you advocate restrictions on immigration and the end of race-based affirmative action as big steps toward creating a better racial climate.

We can neutralize white nationalists by taking away two of their best issues. One is affirmative action as racial preferences and another is liberal immigration policies. One of the concerns that many people have about immigration is that new immigrants, who don't have a shared history of discrimination in the same way as African-Americans, can be eligible for racial preferences; it works against the interests of African-Americans and other people who have a history in this country. Some of them are illegal immigrants, who tend to depress the wages of native workers.

We need to move toward race-neutral affirmative-action policies and guarantee people a working wage. I believe that affirmative action never reached down to the people who were most disadvantaged.

What do you think of the current national black leadership?

The house is on fire for African-Americans, but the black leadership is more focused on the easier, symbolic issues. Some of those issues that the black leaders champion push some white people into the neo-conservative movement as a reaction. Like the focus on slave reparations at this time in history — the timing could not be worse. If whites don't support affirmative action, why would they support reparations? I think it comes at an enormous cost of resentments being stirred.

Black leadership needs to focus still on issues like black crime. Even though crime has dropped nationwide, it's still a pattern that separates African-Americans from other groups. There are cultural things that need to be addressed, like the high rate of illegitimacy. Close to 70 percent of black children are born illegitimate. AIDS is the leading cause of death of African-Americans under the age of 55, and that is not really being discussed by the leading black spokespeople.

Liberals, you say, are not any better in turning back white nationalists because they have no new ideas about race, immigration, poverty.

I think the left is very much focused on maintaining and defending the status quo of things put into place 30 years ago. They're not strategic at all.

How in the world is the average white person, who maybe doesn't like affirmative action, turned into a white nationalist?

To reach the mainstream white population, the group they'd like to politicize, white nationalists have very skillfully adopted the language of multiculturalism and the language of civil rights. The language of multiculturalism says it's O.K. for groups to organize for self-determination and self-pride. The white nationalists say if it's O.K. for blacks and Hispanics, then why not whites? And they say that white Americans are the group that is most discriminated against in America and that there's no one protecting their interests. They are talking about racial preferences, immigration, job loss. The K.K.K. is a dying organization, not because its views and hatred are not out there, but because people have other avenues, and white intellectuals, people who are well educated, are not going to be in any of those organizations.

[Adder]

It is not a quid pro quo that if one is against reparations, affirmative action, or any other cause celebre, one is automaticly a white nationalist. One might simply be disgusted with the double standards that have evolved. If on is against women joing Augusta National, is one a woman hater? Seems to me to be the same thing. I for one am sick of the idea that if a charge is made it a]must automaticlt be true and b] must be adressed like a real issue.

[ckilmer]

'Manifest Destiny' was simply an idea, perhaps appropriate in its time. You speak of it as some sort of objective reality or condition which must exist at present. I don't think the concept has any use in the present circumstances, and is misleading given its earlier connotations.
//////////////////////////////

The world has changed during the decade that has passed since you last looked out the office window. While the english language media anguishes over the english/spanish language issues,fairness in employment and schooling, the spanish language media talks about reconquista.(do a google search if you havn't seen the numerous posts on this.)

How about reparations. Good idea. Dun the white race for the sins of the ancestors. Nothing like this has been dreamed of since the catholic church sold indulgences during the middle ages.

Part of the excitement in the arab world before 9/11 was the thought that the growing numbers of moslems in the USA would give them more political power in the USA. Someday the USA might even be a moslem country! They had reason to think this as their numbers are growing. (and they are still growing both relatively and absolutely--but moslems are small potatoes in the USA both relatively and absolutely)

Oh and the Chinese. Well, never mind about the chinese. (but keep an eye on their numbers in Panama and in the russian far east.)

There are great historical forces at work here and if you don't have an eye on the broad outlines of history you will have zero ability to interpret rightly the times.

Broadly speaking the white race was in a broad advance and expansion for about 500 years or the period since the discovery of the new world 1492. ( the period bracketed by the expulsion of the moors by ferdinand & isabella in the 1470's and the defeat of the turks outside vienna in 1532.)

This expansion was stopped cold by WWI and reversed by WWII. The decline has accelerated since the collapse of the european empires during the 1950's & 60's and again by the collapse of the russian empire in the late 80's. now the usa is in play.

Do you think there is any relationship between these losses and the broad alliance structure that is shaping up from australia to the usa to europe to russia.

nah. couldn't be. people just don't think that way.

[John Lenin]

Q: What is the most racist event on the planet ?

A: The Olympics.

[Illbay]

You argue that an energized white separatist movement exists, despite polls that show more racial tolerance and an increasingly diverse popular culture. Why?

Me! Me! I wanna answer!

It's because throwing together such a "straw man" as this alleged "white nationalism movement" might be useful in resuscitating the increasingly irrelevant race-and-poverty pimp industry in America.

[Illbay]

"The language of multiculturalism says it's O.K. for groups to organize for self-determination and self-pride. The white nationalists say if it's O.K. for blacks and Hispanics, then why not whites?"

Looks like they sucked ya right in, 'Pod. Why anyone would want to stake a position as the flip side of that sorry coin is beyond me.

[Illbay]

The authoress refuses to acknowledge some pertinent data that exists. Where does crime occur and who are the perps?

Hm. Did you read this part:

Black leadership needs to focus still on issues like black crime. Even though crime has dropped nationwide, it's still a pattern that separates African-Americans from other groups. There are cultural things that need to be addressed, like the high rate of illegitimacy. Close to 70 percent of black children are born illegitimate. AIDS is the leading cause of death of African-Americans under the age of 55, and that is not really being discussed by the leading black spokespeople.

[John Lenin]

How to defuse white nationalism's growing appeal

Simple, get rid of the black caucus.

[Illbay]

What is "white history and culture"?

Besides the lack of high melanin levels, what do I, an American whose forebears have been here in America since the mid-1600s, have in common with, say, a Russian Kulak or a Romanian factory worker?

This arbitrary assignment of "history and culture" based solely on skin tone is just the biggest pile of bullsh*t. It's bullsh*t when the "multiculturalists" do it, and it's bullsh*t when some "white nationalist" does it.

Religion, social norm, education, language and a bunch of other factors are FAR more determinants of "history and culture" than skin color ever was.

I am continually amazed at those of us here on FR, who take the bogus, feckless arguments of the Left and make mirror images of them, as if the fact of their origin makes them immediately legitimate.

I REJECT the arguments and the "truisms" and the first principles of the Left on issues of race and ethnicity. I reject them on princple, and so that means even if they are used to make people similarly-colored with ME "look good," they're STILL bogus!

[Illbay]

Talk about guilt by association!

I think you have something there! What this is, is an attempt to "delegitimize" the rising conservative tide, by hitting it with the "racism" label.

"These people aren't conservatives because they've thought about it and conservatism is correct, but because they're these well-educated white people we've been warned about!"

[Illbay]

Just being alive as such is offensive to the minorities. What is one to do?

Gee, talk about stating the obvious! Don't you answer your own question, here?

[Illbay]

Well, he can forget about getting mine again.

LOL! You "Buchananites" are so amusing in the way you think the rest of us are so stupid!

AS IF anyone named Bush ever had your vote in the first place! HAH! It is to laugh!

Sorry, you can only go to that well once, maybe two times, before it runs dry!

[A_perfect_lady]

Yes, this lady "gets it" and it doesn't really come through in the interview. She, too, is calling for restrictions on immigration. With folks like her and Michelle Malkin calling for it, perhaps others will sit up and take notice, since if whites call for it, it tends to be written off as racism.

Moreover, as a law school professor, I have no doubt in my mind that she herself is seeing the declining quality of students ushered in on an Affirmative Action platform. They provide colorful scenery for a year or two, then drop out. I myself have taught undergraduate classes wherein the majority of black students (and a growing percentage of white students, to be fair) don't know whether to use there or their, to or too. And don't even ask about "whom". They are darn close to illiterate.

There are certainly ways to celebrate white culture without invoking racial supremacy, just reading Florence King's hilarious "WASP, where is thy sting?" and seeing her description of the cultural differences between varying kinds of white American protestants is incredibly revealing. Celebrations of Scottish, Irish, English, Germanic, French, Norwegian, etc heritage are another example. But we have to fight for our right to party, as the Beastie Boys once noted.

[adx]

It's because throwing together such a "straw man" as this alleged "white nationalism movement" might be useful in resuscitating the increasingly irrelevant race-and-poverty pimp industry in America.

May we see that day when the people in that industry are on the unemployment lines. :)

[Sabertooth]

We can neutralize white nationalists by taking away two of their best issues. One is affirmative action as racial preferences and another is liberal immigration policies.

In my mind, this is key. America has a record of being more amenable to demographic change than other nations, partiularly when such change is part of some natural progression over the course of decades and generations.

The impression given now is that there are demographic and ethnic agendas being pursued in force by some in power beyond the comfort zones of a great many people in this country. It's not enough for the elites and their constituencies who favor such agendas to say "deal with it," when there is a threshold beyond which a backlash becomes inevitable.

America has a great and successful (so far) experiment underway, that our Ideal is more important than ethnicity. The appropriate paces of demographic change and assimilation to our Ideal are matters on which reasonable people may disagree. However, a positive outcome to our experiment is not a fait accompli, balkanization is a real danger, and avoidance of it is an imperative.

[cynicom]

Ill....

Sort of I guess. I do not want to offend anyone by having an opinion that just might be controversial. We rednecks have to keep a low profile anymore as there is incoming from all sides. Not complaining, mind you, I know we deserve it.

[A_perfect_lady]

Excuse me, I'm speaking specifically of white American Protestant history and culture, mostly midwestern, which is indeed indentifiable, although hard for us to see. As you say, it is not based on melanin, it is based on the cultures most of our ancestors came from, English, Scottish, Irish, and German, in particular, combined with a democratic, capitalist philosophy and a protestant ethic, both of which encourage a certain rugged individualism not found in other cultures.

Again, if you want to see a glimpse of it, check out the groom's family in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, or look up Florence King's old (well, early 1980s, I think) book WASP, Where is Thy Sting? Once you see her describe it, you'll start seeing it all around you. She also does a nice overview of southern culture in Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady, and Southern Ladies and Gentlemen. I confess, when I say white culture I do tend to exclude southern culture, which is quite different.

[Sabertooth]

Selfish, greedy Ethnicities are destroying this country.

I don't think that's true yet, but there are the cynical and the short-sighted among the politicians who flirt with danger by targeting their appeals to the worst undercurrents of ethnic identity.