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Extracting the Poison From White Racism: How to defuse white nationalism's growing appeal
New York Times ^ | 12-14-02 | Felecia R. Lee

Posted on 12/16/2002 5:34:44 AM PST by SJackson

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To: rmlew
"Mexicans are the eason Southern California has gone leftist."

I grew up in Poway and am very familiar with the hispanic tension in So. Calif. However, I believe the reason So. Calif. went liberal, is more due to the cutting of military bases and military contractors, that used to be the backbone of San Diego County, than the constant immigration of Mexicans. At least a portion of Mexicans vote Republican... ask Congressman Duncan Hunter. You need to travel East and witness the situation with commuties that vast numbers of Arabs settled into. You'll appreciate your Mexican neighbors. Arabs vote consistently democratic (probably because of their hatred for Jews living in Israel). A large number of Arabs, in my community, are on welfare with high numbers of children (remember 4 wives to every man)so, they need all the social handouts they can get. They're going to break our benevolent resources. Clinton/Gore abused our immigration policies for political purposes... what they've done to our nation only future generations will be able to fully discern.
161 posted on 12/16/2002 6:11:30 PM PST by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: SJackson
I would have posted links but I don't know how to do it yet *blush* There are a ton of articles related to it here on FR....just type in "Lewiston" and most of the relevant ones are right there. You have to check it out, crazy stuff.

WCOC is pretty crazy. I just hope that the few token rednecks don't get all whooped up and do something bad:(
162 posted on 12/16/2002 6:19:07 PM PST by Morrigan
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To: sauropod
"there are some areas of W Virginia and other rural areas where I have been where I would be afraid of whites perpetrating muggings, etc"

If you look at the stats, W Virginia has one of the lowest crime rates of any state. So, unlike the urban poor areas, your fears of violent crime in W Virginia are largely unfounded.

163 posted on 12/16/2002 6:51:37 PM PST by quebecois
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To: Morrigan
Now the white supremacist groups are here. There is going to be a World Church of the Creator rally in my town in January. I can't even tell you how surreal that is. A lot of people are saying the rally won't be well attended, but I think they are wrong. People are so fed up with being stepped on, they need someone or something to turn to.

Germany, 1932

164 posted on 12/16/2002 6:52:43 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: facedown
"talk about guilt by association"

Liberals spend much of their time doing 2 things: 1) going on endlessly about how america needs frank discussions about race, and 2) having hissy fits when any white person talks to them frankly about race. The reality is that liberals DO NOT WANT and WILL NOT TOLERATE frank discussions about race. What they want are endless loops of themselves droning on and on about all of the PC/evil-white racism BS. I generally tune this out, as I spent many years on college campuses...and got more than my fair share of their tirades.

165 posted on 12/16/2002 6:56:03 PM PST by quebecois
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To: CatoRenasci
"..she "gets it"...most whites are probably not overtly racist.."

The problems that she addresses have their origins from the fact that the liberal elites in this country have forced a variety of policies onto the US which have never really been accepted by the vast white middle/working class. Affirmative action is the most obvious example.

Multiculturalism and mass immigration are two more. Back in the civil rights movement, the majority of white americans came to accept the idea that the minorities that were here should be treated as equals and with respect. The elites took this and ran with it in a totally different direction: namely, that this country no longer was a white middle class nation, but now belonged to "the world".

Suddenly, hordes of illegal and legal immigrants started showing up. Suddenly, our kids were no longer allowed to attend Dicken's play "A Christmas Carol" because it was too "religious" for public school (a real example from The Factor tonight). Suddenly, we all had to sit through "diversity seminars" where we were lectured that america no more belongs to us than it does to the illegal from syria.

In a nutshell, what started as a movement to give fair treatment to minorities here in the US became a liberal jihad to overturn the traditions and institutions of the groups that created america. The masses of white middle class/working class america never agreed to this...and I doubt that they ever will.

166 posted on 12/16/2002 7:05:42 PM PST by quebecois
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To: Morrigan
I'm worried about these problems the city is having. They don't look like they are about to get any better, they look like they are about to get worse!

Americans are generally docile when not directly threatened. Call somebody a racist (or whatever name) and he'll back down, mostly

When you directly threaten their jobs, their ability to make their mortgage payments, you will find it easier to make them mad. But when you make them worried about their kids, and make them dispair that their kids will have a decent future, then I think we will see a level of savagery unleashed that the world has not seen in a long time.

Think of the American middle-class like a large dog, chained to his dog-house. Every once in a while a little yapping mutt will run over and grab a bone out of his dish and scamper off, proud of himself. The little mutt is mostly safe, because the chain that holds the big dog to his house is strong and thick.

But pray for the little mutt on the day the big dog gets ticked off enough that he breaks the chain, for then there will be no place for the little mutt to run to

167 posted on 12/16/2002 7:15:38 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: sauropod
A good start to ending racism would be to end Affirmative Action and any program like it. Get the government out of race altogether.
168 posted on 12/16/2002 7:25:10 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Morrigan
The Somalis accused Lewiston people of being racist

They should put the Somalis in Detroit's inner city now and see if they're problems are from race or something else.

169 posted on 12/16/2002 7:29:50 PM PST by FITZ
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To: mafree
Now I don't say the above to whine, but to point out why it can be so easy for so many to dismiss American values. These folks now have the job of embracing those values despite their violation throughout history.

I can kind of appreciate what you're saying ----but the history of slavery shows that blacks in Africa were just as much a part of it. Slavery isn't really just a white crime against blacks, there were Africans themselves who benefitted financially by the selling of their slaves to whites.

170 posted on 12/16/2002 7:35:26 PM PST by FITZ
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To: mafree
See what I mean?

Birth of Tha SYNDICATE
101 things that the Mozilla browser can do that Internet Explorer cannot.

171 posted on 12/16/2002 7:37:59 PM PST by rdb3
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To: mafree
I think assimilation of American values, both by immigrants but also by our children is the strength of our nation. Yup, mostly white, Judeo Christian stuff, but not defined that way, universal values, and they’d work for a hard working black Muslim refugee from Sudan just fine if he accepts them...You are right- the problem throughout American history has been the unalterable fact that American values weren't meant for those who were brought here to be slaves or those whose land was taken from them.

I was looking at it purely from the perspective of the assimilation of different ethnic (essentially all white), not racial racial backgrounds, which was successful in America, and to the extent that a "white nationalist" movement raises it's head (not great), may now be failing.

The issue of black assimilation is far more problematical, I look forward to your input.

172 posted on 12/16/2002 7:38:50 PM PST by SJackson
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To: Bruno
It's not just the Rats. Republicans, led by Bush, and bending over backwards to bring in millions of illegals. Bush has flatly refused to tighten the Mexican border, despite overwhelming evidence that it has become a superhighway for drug smugglers, human smugglers, and potential terrorists, not mention the invasion route for Third World hordes. This goes beyond stupidity. This verges on treason.

The above is inordinately clear, what is disturbing is that most American citizens appear to be enjoying the ever warming water.

173 posted on 12/16/2002 7:48:37 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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Comment #174 Removed by Moderator

To: mafree
Gee whiz, I guess my Black daddy was the biggest sucker in world for getting a job to support his wife and 4 kids- he coulda got that welfare check. And my Black grandfathers had the wool pulled over their eyes too- boy did they waste their time slaving in that radiator factory all those years. Shoulda waited for those "handouts," eh?

Question: How can illegal alien families that make 7 bucks an hour or less, afford to have eight and nine children, or more? How is this possible when most American citizens can barely afford two kids? Who is paying the medical bills? The dentist? The food? Housing? Insurance? Clothing etc etc. Can you explain to me how they can possibly afford these basic, necessary things?

175 posted on 12/16/2002 8:32:06 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Rytwyng
I was in error respecting my case on working class whites and the black underclass. However, the black birthrate is well under that of Hispanics. Part of this is due to the predominantly Protestant background and the resultant lessened opposition to birth control and even abortion, vs. historically Catholic Hispanics. But another part stems from the breakdown in the black family, especially in the underclass. There are a number of factors behind this situation: the victory among black intellectuals of the statist W.E.B. Du Bois faction, represented by the NAACP, vs. the self-reliant Booker Washington/George Washington Carver faction, the rise of the welfare state from the 1930s onward, the dominance of the "Social Gospel" in black pulpits, and the effects of increased decadence in the mainstream culture. A similar degeneration is occurring in the white working class, though the degeneracy is 30 or so years behind that of the black underclass.

White working class and black underclass birthrates may not decline to the levels of the white upper and middle classes. But in both cases, the frequency of fatherless homes, rampant drug and alcohol addiction, poor public education, and an overall anti-intellectual sentiment will ensure that most of the offspring of the lower classes will become the "proles" of the 21st Century.

176 posted on 12/16/2002 9:32:47 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Rytwyng
All societies have elites. America's elite a century ago were predominantly pro-free market, favored moral absolutes, and were either Christian in faith or in agreement with the moral sentiments of the Ten Commandments. When the liberal establishment falls, there will be a replacement elite. Pray that the new elie would facor the principles on which our Founding Fathers established this republic.
177 posted on 12/16/2002 9:38:22 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
Not bad! I do admit that the mega-Yugoslavia with nukes scenario is one possible worst case. It is true that we do get people in from different cultural backgrounds, and I doubt that they'll deliberately unite in a "get whitey" hatefest. It may be more like a "war of all against all" (ie. protect your own group at all costs and at the expense of others), with interludes of cooperation when it's convenient to take the fight to a third party.

The possibility of a Mexican/Atzlan secession is one that's more likely. I have to agree with Huntington on this one. Second and third generation Hispanics have incentives to assimilate (personal note: I'm a second-gen myself, although I'm of Greek descent). The intermarriage trend that you mentioned is one sign of that. Some of the other pressures to assmiliate that existed for my grandparents are still in force today, from the immediate needs of survival in a new land to helping your kids climb higher up the ladder than you.

However, the Mexican/Atzlan situation is different in some respects from the immigration wave of the last century. Resistance to assimilation is high, aided by the ease of travel and communication with a mother country sharing a land border with us (contrast this with the immigration wave at the turn of the 20th century, when travel/communications were more difficult, aiding in severing ties to the mother country). The multicultural fetish exhibited by TPTB doesn't help a whole lot either. History plays in this too, since we did annex a good-sized chunk of their turf that they consider to be theirs. And, the numbers themselves may prove decisive. After all, if your cultural kin are the majority, why bother assimilating in a culture that's in retreat? Especially if you can use your voting power backed by sheer numbers to extract wealth from that structure to tide you over (another key difference between now and a century ago), while clinging on to the culture of the mother country and building an economic base that spans both sides of the border?

As far as leadership for a secession goes, those second and third generation folks with their acquired Protestant work ethic, their wealth, and their cultural ties to their ancestral lands may provide it, especially if the economics are there to support it, and if there's some serious racial animosity built up. Take a look at this article for one possible indicator of this (ie. the renewed interest in Spanish by second/third gen types). The fact that there's a "La Raza" doesn't sound too promising to those that aren't part of it if the militant types come to the fore. As to the timing of this, I think that the 2015-2030 timeframe makes sense (that's when the Boomers die off). The remaining determining factor is whether the US will use force to prevent this from happening or not. A Hispanic Ghandi-type leading a civil disobedience campaign, or a bloody Bosnia complete with ethnic cleansing campaigns? And what happens if Atzlan becomes a reality? I know some neo-Confederate types would be more than happy to use that as a precedent ("If they can do it, why can't we?").

Carol Swain is right when she said that the certainty that whites will be a minority is the biggest card racists of all types have to play. This ties into your comments concerning causes of lower birthrates among whites. I would add to it by saying that another thing that depresses birthrates is whether you have hope in the future or not. For many that are looking ahead, the future looks pretty bleak for them and any children they hope to raise. A lot of factors tie into that (taxes, welfare, jobs, etc.), that tend to stack the deck against whites. Hell, it stacks the deck against anyone that's productive when you have to shoulder the load for everyone else too.

Have you ever read The Coming Anarchy by Kaplan, by any chance? The article’s a bit dated, but one thing I find interesting is his concept of a bi-furicated world, where you have Fukuyama's Last Man safe and secure (a small minority), and Hobbes’ First Man (everyone else) living a life that’s “nasty, brutish, and short”. With that in mind, we may both unfortunately be right. We turn into a mega-Brazil with all the barriers between haves and have-nots. The haves sit behind very well-fortified walls with all the ancient hatreds ironed out by economic prosperity, and Swain’s “white nationalists” get a receptive have-not audience looking for security from the predation of others and scapegoats to retaliate against. Any way you slice it, the prospects for Western Civ look pretty dim to me at the moment.

Well, here's to hoping that my pessimism remains just that. A long post, and I'm a bit tardy with it. Feel free to correct me or rip me to shreds. :)

178 posted on 12/16/2002 9:55:12 PM PST by adx
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To: FITZ
You are not wrong about the complicity of some Africans in the slave trade but most of the discussion of slavery focuses on what it became in America, like it or not.
179 posted on 12/16/2002 11:13:13 PM PST by mafree
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To: rdb3
Yes I do.
180 posted on 12/16/2002 11:14:28 PM PST by mafree
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