Fundamentalists Losing Favor with Public <barf alert>

The Data Lounge ^ | Friday, 6 December 2002 | -- C. Barillas, Editor

[jude24]

Citing a 200-year-old state court decision is hardly definitive of your position. This decision is only binding on the PA courts, and that only if it has not been overturned or modified by later SCOTUS or SCOPA decisions (which, undoubtedly, it has been.)

[RAT Patrol]

How do these statements fit into that?:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams, Oct. 11, 1798 Address to the military

"Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics." -John Adams

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." -Thomas Jefferson

"We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." -James Madison

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." -Samuel Adams

"[N]either the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen onto any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man." -Samuel Adams

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom...go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor arms. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -Samuel Adams

"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." -William Penn

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles." -Patrick Henry

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined," -Patrick Henry

"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed, if so celestial an article as Freedom should not be highly rated." -Thomas Paine; 1776

"[I]f we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us, that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity." -Daniel Webster

[realpatriot71]

What again was the official original position on slavery again? I'm trying to remember . . . find me some case law from 1815

What's my point? Not every position found in early case law is correct and applicable today. The govenment's official position is that of securing the natural rights of it's citizens. It's not the morality police. Often (most of the time) laws reflect, not only the protection of rights, but the morality of a situation. Being a "law" doesn't make it moral. The Christian experience and the morals that go along with it apply to the individual, not to the country as a whole. I must have missed the portion of the gospel when God took up arms to forcibly make the Jewish nation follow Him. What's the chapter and verse on that one?

[jjm2111]

Some of the evangelicals on this very board seem to be pre-occupied w/ sexual sin to the point of distraction. It's their way or the highway. It almost seems that they are appalled that somewhere, someone is having fun.

If fellow Conservatives can get tired of the Bible thumping what do you think the majority of people in this country think?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

...Jesus Christ made alcohol for a party in his very first miracle!

Nuh-uh. It was Welch's Grape Juice. "Young wine". Ask 'em.

[jude24]

I've heard it from a fundie rabble-rouser "evangelist" who told the students on this campus they were going to hell because they drank alcohol. Someone asked about Cana, and he spouted that nonsense. We Crusaders laughed in his face.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Wasn't Brother Jed Smock, was it?

[realpatriot71]

That which assaults your morals does no necessarily assault your rights. It's an important distinction. Why? Because morals are largely defined (rightly so) within a religious context. When one sets precedent that it's ok to legislate religious morals, then any religious morals can be legislated. It all depends on who is in power. It's the principle involved, stick to natural rights, which lie outside of any religion.

[Marysecretary]

Only God has the right to judge sinners. Christians can take each other to task when they see sin in their lives, but unbelievers are God's responsibility. He'll take care of them. AIDS, in my opinion, is one of God's judgements against homosexuality. They'll die without our putting them to death. What a way to live, huh?

[general_re]

Christians can take each other to task when they see sin in their lives, but unbelievers are God's responsibility.

Fair enough. So why go out of your way to chain a brick to your head by advocating a policy like that? Doesn't make much sense, does it?

[jude24]

He went by the name Brother Steve.

A few from Campus Crusade for Christ met him, withstood him, and made sure that the audience heard the true Gospel. "Brother Steve" focused exclusively on judgment; we made sure the Redemption was communicated.

[MoGalahad]

Actually I think this reflects the effectiveness of 60 years of brainwashing by the NEA.

[Phantom Lord]

There are several posters, and one more than others who are advocating such things. And you dont wanna know what they say about and want to do to those who disagree with them.

[iranger]

"Which in today's world means to not practice your Christian faith at all if it means it may actually come into play in your political views"

Katie bar the door. I think I read somewhere that our own president reads the Bible every day. This probably horrifies many of the godless frequenting this thread. I'm sure they were far more comfortable with his predessor who was known to attend Easter service, bible in hand, than head back to the White House to molest young women.

[axel f]

Whew, if those same people said those quotations today, the leftists would run them out of town!

Those are going on my hard drive!

[BureaucratusMaximus]

THat is one of the problems. Some zealous evangelicals can be very pushy regarding their efforts. I've heard some that will spout the "you are going to Hell unless..." type of argument to the unchurched. The problem, IMHO, is that these are arguments and creat a confrontational atmosphere.

No, thats the whole problem...nobody likes a hypocrite and will take one seriously. The way we conduct ourselves in relation to our brother and live our life is the only viable witness (in my opinion). I've found that being pushy/alienating other "sinners"(aka spiritual conceitedness)/preaching till your blue in the face/ has never worked for me, and has hurt alot of people.

[axel f]

Thank you for those wonderful verses.

[iranger]

"The witch trials show what happens when religious zealots are allowed to run the legal system. Just tie a rock around their necks and G*d will float the innocent is no way to run a legal system."

Stalin was a good example of what happens when aethist scum get control of the legal system. Far worse has been done in absense of God than in his name. Who do you prefer, Bush or Gore, Reagan or Clinton?