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To: Stingray51
guitars replaced organs, applause at Mass became common, communion rails were removed, confession pretty much died off, and annulments became common

1. I haven't seen a guitar in church since about 1975.
2. I only hear applause when a convert is introduced - usually only at Easter.
3. The basis for the communion rail goes back to rural dark ages Europe, where it was introduced to keep farm animals off the altar. Hardly a problem nowadays.
4. I go to confession at least once a month - no one is stopping me and many are encouraging me.
5. As one who has received an annulment, I can assure you that the process is quite lengthy and quite painful. It took me two years to complete the process, it involved locating people who knew of me before I was married and convincing them to prepare an essay, and several hearings. It was hardly a "rubber stamp" and was at all times based on church teachings. It is common simply because divorce is more common - Vatican II did not change that.
15 posted on 12/11/2002 6:53:16 AM PST by kidd
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To: kidd
I am not questioning your entitlement to an annulment. But I do believe the number granted per year, 50,000, is an enormous scandal and that the vast majority of marriages annulled were in fact valid, which is another way of saying it has in fact, in the United States, become a form of "Catholic Divorce". You can disagree and there is really no way to prove the point. Either you have confidence in the annulment process or you do not (I do not).

I don't know where you've been going to Mass but if you haven't not seen a guitar since 1975 it is a very unusual place indeed. I travel quite a bit and see them frequently (“on eagles’ wings” and all that).

Unfortunately, I have experienced applause much more frequently (for example, after a particularly spirited musical performance).

As for going to confession once a month, that's great. I suspect, however, that you are in a tiny minority of Mass-goers.
17 posted on 12/11/2002 7:07:31 AM PST by Stingray51
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To: kidd
1. I haven't seen a guitar in church since about 1975.

What diocese are you in? We didn't get rid of the guitars until the late 80's only to have them replaced with pianos. And it just doesn't work in church, IMO.
20 posted on 12/11/2002 7:16:28 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: kidd
I haven't seen a guitar in church since about 1975

Feel free to come to Milwaukee. They are all over the place up here--in CHURCHES.

I only hear applause when a convert is introduced

Here, it' after all weddings, after certain announcements, and whenever the priest invites it.

the communion rail goes back to rural dark ages Europe, where it was introduced to keep farm animals off the altar.

WRONG and ignorant. Communion rails are a continuation of the Temple's screening of the 'holy of holies' space, and are also a reflection of the Orthodox's 'gated' sanctuaries. Not just a rail, a GATE!

[annulment] is common simply because divorce is more common - Vatican II did not change that.

JPII has been fighting the annulment explosion in the USA tooth and nail, without much success. The commonality of divorce has NOTHING to do with the availability and commonality of annulment--except that for some strange reason, American annulments comprise about 95% of all those granted worldwide. We certainly don't have 95% of all the DIVORCES worldwide.

34 posted on 12/11/2002 7:39:31 AM PST by ninenot
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