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Very good post thank you. However, I though Pat hated Catholics?

Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception. By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.

-That's me. I go to Church every week. I really don't like abortion. However, I do not agree w/ the Church's position on contraception and I have a hard time believing transubstantiation. (I'm btwn 20-30 btw).

Although I voted for Patrick Buchanan in two primaries ('92 and '96), I have now come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a pathetic spoiler who has made a career for himself of causing divisiveness among conservatives. Having been completely disgraced in Republican circles due to his humilitingly poor showing in 2000, Nixon's apologist now appears to have turned his tongue against Christ's Church.

As a free convert to Catholicism (I was received into the church before I knew any lay Catholics), I have a far different take on the Second Vatican Council than most of the cradle Catholics here. As uncharitable as it sounds, I would not mind if all of these whiners on both sides of the debate left the church! Go away, we don't need want you here! Catholicism is not a democracy, never has been, never will be. If you want to vote on issues of morality, authority, or music, turn in your Rosary and go become a Presbyterian. I don't care if you are a member of "Voice of the Faithful" or "SSPX", either way you just don't get it. Ours is a religion of assent.

Although everything touched by man will be affected by the scandal of the fall, we as Catholics are called to have faith that the Lord will not allow his Bride to die. Please don't misunderstand me, these crimes are among the most horrid imaginable and all of the perpetrators and collaborators should be punished to the full extent of the law. If any priest with in driving distance of me got away with molesting a child, I'd bury him myself (with no hyperbole implied). The distinction is that no entity (no nation, race, or religion) should be judged by the behavior of it's worst members. There have always been scandals in every organization and there always will be, it a direct result of Adam's error. Our duty is to respond to these tragedies with faith and justice. If this isn't for you, you will find that there are plenty other Protestant denominations for which you are better suited. They even have the best organists.

...so, too, the scandal of predator-priests now afflicting the Catholic Church may be covering up a far greater calamity...

Pat, in case you already forgot -- "the scandal of predator-priests" started a year ago, and the Council ended in December 1965. The Catholic statistics you cite took their deepest plunge in the period from 1966 to about 1978. If the bad statistics are in your opinion the "far greater calamity" then how is the recent "scandal of predator-priests" in the Catholic Church covering it up, huh?

And, how does that compare to the Watergate scandal cover up when things took place simultaneously, huh?

I understand your good intentions, but I wish you wouldn't use Bill O'Reilly technique of manipulation.

The statistics are very telling indeed, although what they show is that the Council was promptly hijacked in the US Church by the enemy to bring in confusion. The self-proclaimed interpretors of the "Council's spirit" multiplied like rabbits. Suddenly dropped Sunday Mass attendance alone should be telling enough to set off all red flashing lights and sirens to the shepeherds of the Church to indicate that something is really really wrong.

Again, in case you forgot, there are quite a few more Catholics in the world outside of the US. For millions of them Vatican II was another Ecumenical Council and not the end of the world.