Pakistan, in flagrante delicto

UPI ^ | 12.10.2002 | Arnaud de Borchgrave

[habs4ever]

What makes you think they don't know this already?

The biggest threat is Saddam.Then Iran, followed by Syria then the Saudis.

[El Gato]

apparent gang of islamofascists that represent the pan-arab world

Pakistanis, Iranians, Afghans of various tribes and other Islamofascits are not Arabs. Although some have said that Islam is the Arab way of imposing their culutre on the rest of the world, and Arabic is the "holy language" of Islam, much as Latin was the "Church Language" of the Roman Catholic church until the 1950s and Greek that of at least some Orthodox/eastern churches.

[swarthyguy]

Nope.

Saudi is the biggest threat.

[Turk2]

Turkey can be very influential in Pakistan if it can gain greater political and financial power. There is huge sympathy for Turks among Pakistanis. They believe that we would never sell them out and we believe likewise about them. When the Arabs were stabbing us in the back in WWI they stood by us to the extent of sending their own jewelry to finance the Turkish war effort. They were the only ones that respected us when we had the Caliphate. Their current president speaks fluent Turkish and has profound sympathy for Ataturk. If only we could suppress the Saudi efforts at Arabizing these people through fundamentalist Islam with extensive financial support to increase welfare and improve their eductainal system, we could win this nation back to the civilized world. The country has been struck by decades of poverty, corruption and political chaos. Tens of thousands of people are going to religious schools funded by Wahhabi/Saudi foundations every year because they have no secular schools to go to. If we can bring the rule of secular law into the country and display its benefits, we can show people the right way. If American money that has been funneled into Saudi Arabia and Egypt over the last two decades had been directed to Pakistan you wuld have been talking about a significantly different Pakistan.

[Turk2]

Islamic Fundamentalism IS Arab cultural imperialism.

[Robert_Paulson2]

heh heh... rorry scooby...
toeing would be easier than towing wouldn't it?

[Turk2]

Saudi Arabia is the greatest threat to world civilization that has ever come to earth. They have immense financial power and export their evil view of the world under the guise of educational/cultural/religious foundations and 'aid' programs. Iran follows them but its current rejime will not last more than another 10 years. Iranian people can not bear to live under their sword for much longer. You may expect major civil unrest in Iran within the next 5 years ending in a counter-revolution. Syria is a threat that Israel or Turkey could eradicate in a matter of days if nor hours if the need arises. Iraq is not a problem if it doesn't obtain nukes. Besides Saddam will probably not make it to the end of next year anyway.

[LisaFab]

One at a time.This operation of remaking a region doesn't happen easily.Take out the big dog first, the nasty man with the nasty weapons, and then see what noises begin to emante from various capitals.The impatience to hitting the weakest military power, ie the Saudis, is a weird fetish around FR.They aren't going anywhere.

Was just saying this to some Lib friends last night who were spouting the "it's all about oil" mantra. If it were indeed about oil, we'd take out the Saudis first as they are the weakest militarily and richest oil-wise.

It is the Iraqis who posess the only viable military presence in the ME and must be disarmed first before the rest of the Islamist hornet's nest can be eliminated with a minimum amount of 'sting'. .

I believe that the ayatollahs in Iran will fall internally next and we will then move on to Syria, et. al.

[swarthyguy]

>>When the Arabs were stabbing us in the back in WWI they stood by us to the extent of sending their own jewelry to finance the Turkish war effort.

That would have been before Pakistan existed or was even concieved of in Jinnah's addled mind. That was the Muslims of British India, the Raj.

>>If American money that has been funneled into Saudi Arabia and Egypt over the last two decades had been directed to Pakistan

But it has. Pakistan has recieved TONS of USD over the years, starting in the 50's and ongoing into the 80's, particularly in the AntiSoviet Jihad. What they did was promote islamisation instead of secularisation.

Pakistan's goal is to destroy India. They consider themselves descendants of Arab warriors and want to finish the job the Arabs began and were interrrupted when the British entered the scene.

Nothing personal but the best thing for Pakistan is to disappear into the history books.

Mush's love of secular Turkey is over ridden by his hatred of Hindus and Indians of all stripes. He's just a better dressed and groomed Arafat. Look how much anti Israeli hate spews out of the Pakistani mainstream press. What did the Jews ever do to Pakistan? The islamisation process is irreversible except by force, IMO.

[swarthyguy]

>>Islamic Fundamentalism IS Arab cultural imperialism.


BUMP for the truth. Just take out the cultural, though.

[habs4ever]

The oil weapon also works once Iraq is under US Protectorate status.The Saudis will no longer have their leverage in OPEC.They are screwed once Saddam goes.And they know it :-)

[habs4ever]

Iran is falling apart like East Germany was in the summer of 1989.5 yrs for a peaceful revolution? Goodness, I'd think it will be over by next summer.Removing Saddam will be the catalyst as well.

[GOP_1900AD]

And of course, lest we forget just how naive, wimpy, begging and pathetic our overtures to "we're really the linchpin of the Trans-Asian Axis but pretending to be your long lost cousin" Pakistan have been, on 9/10/2001, Pakistan were licking Jiang Zemin's boots. On 9/11/2001 they were still licking his boots. As they were on 9/12/2001. And on 12/10/2002? Well, they are no longer licking Jiang's boots, now, they are licking Hu Jintao's boots. They are still as they have been since the late 1980s, a PRC satellite. Sometime between when we befriended the Pakistan of the 1950s as part of "the Northern Tier" and now, they stopped acting in the best interests of the West but we were asleep at the wheel. We were also aspleep at the wheel, when, some 15 years after ping-pong diplomacy, the PRC started to build the Trans-Asian Axis. Similarly, when India ditched Socialism last decade, we must have not gotten the memo. Then would have been the time to start to insert ourselves and wean India away from the Russians. Doh! And then, when India literally showed up at the US' door on 9/12 saying "let's partner. Use our ports and airfields. We are in this together" we gave a shoulder at measured at a temperature of absolute zero. And now, in the past week, is it any wonder that Putin jumps first to Beijing and then New Delhi? DOH!!! The USA are the kid who gets sucker punched repeatedly when it comes to our geopolitical acumen. When will we grow up and get a clue?

[backhoe]

-The India-Pakistani Conflict... some background information- --

[swarthyguy]

Bump. Moral of story. Don't give the US anything without hard bargaining ala Pakistan, Saudi, etc etc.

Of course, the Indians were convinced that the US would take seriously the intel placed in front of them about PakiISI involvment in the Attacks on America. That's where they goofed.

Hindsight: if they'd held off on offers of help, would Musharraf have acquiesced to the US or would they have refused, thereby allowing India to play the knight in shining armor. Well, all What if's now.

And let's not even get into the nuclear arming of NorthKorea by the Pakis, as late as August of this year.

But things will come to a head soon. Let's hope that no more than a few million die.

[swarthyguy]

Thanks.

[GOP_1900AD]

"Few" = somewhere between 50 Million and 3 Billion world wide. Your read it here first.

[ganesha]

The mention of Baluchistan is worth noting. One of the points made by Laurie Mylroie is that Ramzi Yousef is probably a Baluch. He manufactured a fake identity by pretending to be Abdul Basit (a Kuwaiti who disappeared during the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait). Ramzi Yousef was the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. His escape route after the bombing ran through Baluchistan. The Baluch are a tribe of people living in Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. There have been Baluch rebellions against both Iran and Pakistan which have received support from Saddam Hussein. See chapter 6 of "The War Against America" by Laurie Mylroie (hardcover title= A Study of Revenge).

[swarthyguy]

Also Mary Jane Weaver's recent book, Jihad....has some great chapters on Baluchistan.

And Bochgrave recently wrote about a Baluchi warlord who knew where Osama was and was puzzled the US wasn't interested.

[Cicero]

Well, as a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we are entering a Thirty Years War with the Muslim world, or maybe a Hundred Years War. The more we hit them, the more we will stir them up. But we really haven't any choice, because if we lie back and let them roll over us, it will be even worse.

Long experience with the Palestinians demonstrates that the more you give, the more they take. Arabs love to jump on people when they are down, but they will not be able to stand up to a western-style war.

It makes sense to go into the Middle East first, because that's where the oil is. The war is not over oil, but it's essential that we keep control over it or we'll be in the soup. We may have to deal with Pakistan down the line, probably in cooperation with India, but that's not the first priority.