US Conservatives dispute Bush’s portrayal of Islam

The Indian Express ^ | 12/9/02 | Dana Milbank

[1bigdictator]

US Conservatives dispute Bush’s portrayal of Islam

Dana Milbank

Washington, December 8 PRESIDENT Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with Conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism. In a score of speeches since the September 11, 2001, attacks, Bush has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as ‘‘a faith based upon peace and love and compassion’’ and a religion committed to ‘‘morality and learning and tolerance.’’

But a large number of foreign policy hawks — some of them with advisory roles in the Bush administration — have joined religious conservatives in taking issue with Bush’s characterisations. While most of them understand the political rationale for Bush’s statements — there’s no benefit in antagonising Muslim allies such as Pakistan and Indonesia — they say the claim is dishonest and destined to fail. For Bush and for the country, the outcome of the argument is crucial.

The administration, and moderate governments in Arab and Muslim nations, are struggling to prevent the war on terrorism from becoming what Osama bin Laden wants: a war of civilisation between the Judeo-Christian West and a resentful and impoverished Muslim world. Calling Islam a peaceful religion ‘‘is an increasingly hard argument to make,’’ said Kenneth Adelman, a former Reagan official who serves on the Bush Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board.

‘‘The more you examine the religion, the more militaristic it seems. After all, its founder, Mohammed, was a warrior, not a peace advocate like Jesus.’’ Another member of the Pentagon advisory board, Eliot Cohen of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, wrote an article on the Wall Street Journal editorial page arguing that the enemy of the US is not terrorism ‘‘but militant Islam.’’ ‘‘The enemy has an ideology, and an hour spent surfing the Web will give the average citizen at least the kind of insights that he or she might have found during World Wars I and II by reading Mein Kampf or the writings of Lenin, Stalin or Mao.’’

Cohen acknowledges it is impolitic and ‘‘deeply uncomfortable’’ for the administration to say such things. ‘‘Nobody would like to think that a major world religion has a deeply aggressive and dangerous strain in it — a strain often excused or misrepresented in the name of good feelings. But uttering uncomfortable and unpleasant truths is one of the things that defines leadership,’’ he said.

At the same time, social conservatives are resisting Bush’s efforts to portray Islam in a favorable light. ‘‘Islam is at war against us,’’ Paul Weyrich, an activist who is influential in the White House, wrote recently.

‘‘I have had much good to say about President Bush in recent months. But one thing that concerned me before September 11 and concerns me even more now is his administration’s constant promotion of Islam as a religion of peace and tolerance just like Judaism or Christianity. It is neither.’’ — LATWP

[Radioactive]

You said...."For his time, Mohammed was a rather peaceful man, and he was warred against more than the warrior."

I say.......Nonsense. You do not know history. Mohammed was a terorist plain & simple. He killed because no one wanted him as their leader. NO body believed him. He was one of the most despicable people in all of history. His evil empire of religious fanatics are still a pox on the world today.

Mohammed was

a pedophile--he had a 9 year old wife.

a drug taking epileptic whose bablings were written down by religous fanatics.

Confused--there are many conflicting bablings that Mohammed expoused in the Quran (Koran).

Dangerous. He went on many attacks of Christians and killed many himself enjoying the experiance.

A religion of peace my behind. Why is it that so many use the Quran and the surahs as a document to inflict terror on the world? It is because the Quran is ......evil!

[Jael]

Jehovah is not Allah. Jehovah never was the moon god Allah.

[Angelus Errare]

"If you read the Qur'an's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons."

And a Manichean or a Gnostic would say that it is obvious that the God of the Old Testament cannot be the loving Christ of the New Testament. While I think that Muslims are extremely wrong-headed in their perception of the Deity, I don't see this as preventing them from worshipping Yahweh anymore than it stops contemporary Jews.

"Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is 'unknowable' while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man."

You do realize that these same invectives can be leveled at the Jewish faith, right?

"The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ."

As does Judaism. So is Judaism then irredeemably evil (as opposed to simply being incorrect)?

"Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation."

Funny, the Copts have been around for over a millennium now and they're still around.

"The Qur'an specifically denies the deity of Christ!"

As does the Jewish Talmud, if I recall correctly. Your point being?

"Jehovah is not Allah. Jehovah never was the moon god Allah."

Allah simply means "the God" in Arabic. Any attempt to link it back to Arabian polytheism is ultimately an exercise of deceptive semantics. Deus, the Latin word from which we derive the term Deity, originally referred to the Greek god Zeus. So the dilemma you find yourself is this: are Coptic, Maronite, Chaldean, or Syriac Christians praying to Yahweh when they say "Allah" every day in their prayers or not?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Did you not take the time to read the whole parable?"

Well, I'll be damned!

I was about to give up on you.

I'm glad that you finally got it.

Good night.

[Jael]

I see that you didn't read it. Shame on you.

[Jael]

Jehovah is not Allah. He could not be. Sorry, try again.

[Jael]

Why do you attempt to malign the Jew? He does not reject Jehovah. Islam does, and indeed calls God a liar.

[Destro]

BTW, have you seen Abu Hamza's "Caught on Tape" video stash of al-Qaeda storm troopers training and fighting in Bosnia and Kosovo?

You mean this stash?

CNN wont show Qaida promotional video from Bosnia showing a severed human head rolling through grass

[1bigdictator]

You did not take the time to read my responses to your post. I never advocated holding the majority of Muslims responsible for the handy work of the percentage that is militant (Wahabis are only a sub set of this percentage). I took issue with your poor use of a flawed analogy based upon race that drew a poor parallel to the current situation.

[Angelus Errare]

No, those were the videotapes CNN found in Afghanistan.

However, Jeremy Reynalds got ahold of several al-Qaeda recruiting videos from a friend operating under the nom de cyber of Albert, who pretended via E-Mail to be a Muslim to Abu Hamza and said that he could recruit over a hundred fighters for the cause if he just got ahold of some recruiting tapes. Abu Hamza then sent Albert copies of the al-Qaeda videotapes that seem to date from 1993 to 1999.

One of them shows a terrorist training camp at what I believe is Tropoja in northern Albania. Looks to be about the same curriculum that the good old boys went through in Afghanistan and the narrator is talking about Kosovo.

Another one from a little bit earlier (probably between 1992 and 1996) and shows interviews with British Muslims about their experiences fighting in Bosnia on behalf of "Sheikh Osama bin Laden" and bragging about how many Serbs they've killed. The basic gist of it is that every Muslim should join the fight in Bosnia and if they cannot actually join then they should at least send as much financial support as possible.

Other recruiting videos showed al-Qaeda troops fighting Somalia, Eritrea, Chechnya, the southern Philippines, Kashmir, and East Timor as well as commentary and theological justifications by Abu Hamza.

I should also point out that all of this has been made available to the British authorities, yet good old Captain Hook is still walking the streets of London ...

[Angelus Errare]

"Try hard to talk to me, if you have something to say to me."

Seeing how you prefer to take cheap shots at me rather than deal with my arguments, I very much doubt that this will be the case.

"Confusion is apparently your natural state, not mine."

If I'm confused, then I'm really scared to see what definition you would ascribe to yourself and your co-ideologists.

Nearly all of your posts have been straw man arguments (i.e. you're basically setting up a caricature of a position so that you can knock it down). And when your straw men are refuted, you don't come back with any real argument, just another round of personal attacks.

Been taking your lessons from the Jesse Jackson school of debating? Keep tossing out charges, sooner or later maybe one of 'em will stick!

[Angelus Errare]

"Jehovah is not Allah. He could not be. Sorry, try again."

Then to whom do all of those Arab Christian groups I named pray to when they say "Allah?" Is it Yahweh or is it someone else?

More to the point, I view the Calvinist conception of God is completely abhorrent and incorrect, but I don't try to deny that Calvinists worship the same God that I do.

"Why do you attempt to malign the Jew?"

Most assuredly I do not. Rather, I malign your interpretation of Scripture and interpret it differently than you do. While I recognize that you believe that your interpretation is the correct one, all I ask for you to do is provide a decent theological argument explaining why Jews are not a religion of an antichrist whereas Muslims are because both do not believe that Jesus is either God or came in the flesh.

The only thing even resembling a theological explanation is that while Jews worship Yahweh, Muslims do not because Allah, according to you, is a moon god. Very well, but then the problem of millions of Arab Christians (whom others have cited as being persecuted by Muslims) also say "Allah" when making their prayers. So you are now in something of a Catch-22 where you must denounce Arab Christians for praying to a moon god or you must at least acknowledge the possibility of Muslims being genuine, however incorrect, worshippers of Yahweh.

"Islam does, and indeed calls God a liar."

Islam holds the absolute highest regard for Allah and rejecting him is considered to be both haram (mortal sin) and shirk (blasphemy) under the Sunnah. When you say that Islam calls God a liar, you are of course referring to Jesus, whom you and I accept as God but whom Muslims (and Jews) do not. In actuality, the view of Jesus contained in the Qu'ran is far kinder than that contained in the Talmud.

[Jael]

Allah is not Jehovah. Allah has none of the qualities of Jehovah. Just because Coptic Christians may use the word Allah does not mean they are praying to the Muslim moon god Allah. In fact, you would not be able to prove that the Coptic Christian who worships and believes in Jehovah was in any way following or practicing any Muslim religion, including the worship of the moon god Allah.

Neither do the Jews worship Allah.

Perhaps some reading regarding the qualities of Allah and the qualities of Jehovah would help you.

[Jael]

Luis smears everyone with the same brush. If you are not pro Islam, he accuses you of being a warmonger, among other things. He's just spinning.

[agrace]

From the Hadith.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

[Destro]

I posted that story as well. The man who posed as a jihadist to get teh evidence is a freeper and has turned over the tapes to the Milosevic defense team (his own statement). When I find I will link.

[agrace]

Bringing up the fact that the Jews deny Jesus is God each time a comparison of Allah and Jehovah is attempted is simply a diversion and does not matter to the question at hand.

One can compare Allah with the OT YHWH or Allah with the NT Jesus Christ and determine that Allah resembles neither. What the OT YHWH and the NT Jesus Christ and subsequently He whom Jesus calls Father have in common is an entirely different discussion, albeit an interesting and necessary one.

But for the point that keeps getting lost. Allah is neither found in the OT descriptions of YHWH nor the NT descriptions of Christ and/or the Father.

First, the mention must be made of the fact that Islam denies the accuracy of both texts (OT and NT), while at the same time, irreconcilably professing respect for "the Book" and "people of the Book," ie Jews and Christians. Mohammed taught that both texts were corrupted, the originals distorted, changed, things omitted and the original message lost.

That alone raises the notion that the three faiths do not worship the same God, even if only addressed from the Muslim's perspective - how can any Muslim believe that the Christians and Jews are accurately worshipping Allah if they don't even know for sure what He is really like, due to the fact that their scripture has been corrupted and changed?

With that in mind, one only has to compare the attributes of Allah with the attributes of the OT Jehovah, or compare the attributes of Allah with the NT Jehovah to determine that neither represents Allah as claimed by Islam.

For the sake of the original proof, here's a comparison of Allah with Jehovah as Christians believe Him to be, according to the Bible.

Christianity says Jehovah is eternal and changeless (James 1:17). Islam says that Allah can change (Surah 2:106).

Jehovah loves utterly (John 3:16). Allah changes in affections (Surah 32:13).

Jehovah cannot lie (Titus 1:2). Allah deceives (Surah 8:30).

Jehovah is triune (John 8:54, Col 2:9, many more). Allah is not triune and to say otherwise is blasphemous (Surah 5:73). Also, Islam misrepresents the trinity as consisting of Jesus, God and Mary (Surah 5:116).

Jesus is eternal (Col 1:17). Islam says Jesus was created (Surah 3:59).

Jesus is Lord God, and the only way to the Father (John 14:6). Islam says Jesus is merely an apostle of Allah (Surah 4:171).

Jesus was crucified for the sins of mankind (Eph 1:7). Islam says Jesus was never crucified, that it was a deception ((Surah 4:157).

More general concepts relating to Jehovah and Allah which further define their differences -

According to Christianity, humankind is sinful/fallen by nature (Rom 3:23, 5:12). Islam says humans are not born sinful and their good will be weighed against evil on judgment day (Surah 11:114).

Salvation is a gift (Eph 2:8-9). Islam says salvation is works-based (same surah as above).

Salvation is offered to all (Rom 10:13). Islam says Allah saves whom he wants to save (Surah 2:284).

We can be sure of salvation (John 10:28, and others). Islam only mentions jihad as a guarantee, anything else is dubious until death (Surah 3:157).

Based on these and no doubt other comparable differences, it is pretty safe to say that the attributes of Allah and Jehovah as seen through Christian scriptures vs Islamic ones are basically in complete dichotomy. To suggest that Christians and Muslims worship the same God (regardless of what Allah means in Arabic, which is a trivial point) is to deny both the Koran and the Bible. And with that in mind, both texts can't be correct. Bottom line - if we believe the Bible, we must deny the Koran. And vice versa. If we believe in Jesus, we must deny Allah. And vice versa.