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To: Joe Brower
U.S. appellate panel rules that the 2nd Amendment does not give individuals the right to keep and bear arms.

That's right! The Bill Of Rights doesn't give any rights at all. It merely expresses pre-existing rights. You already have those rights and others, it just lists some of them for the benefit of those who would take them away.

18 posted on 12/06/2002 8:09:50 AM PST by coloradan
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To: coloradan
You already have those rights and others, it just lists some of them for the benefit of those who would take are taking them away.
21 posted on 12/06/2002 8:15:24 AM PST by Eala
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To: coloradan
The Bill Of Rights doesn't give any rights at all. It merely expresses pre-existing rights. You already have those rights and others, it just lists some of them for the benefit of those who would take them away.

That's actually a Libertarian sentiment (and some other "conservative" philosophies as well) but it isn't at all compatible with "state's rights" philosophies which insist that each state can decide any and all questions including state religions, slavery, segregation, bedroom privileges, etc.

Libertarians (and as I say some others) believe that rights pre-exist any government whereas Constitutionalists believe whatever the Constitution says, however amended. That's precisely why Libertarians aren't strict Constitutionalists -- since an amended or interpreted Constitution could take away your right to bear arms. Libertarians believe you have an innate right of the means of self-defense, including those tools that can accomplish that goal, such as handguns -- and therefore no government, no Constitution, no anything can rightly infringe that right.

We Libertarians are often called scoff-laws for such principled stands -- as anti-societarian, etc.

23 posted on 12/06/2002 8:26:04 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: coloradan
Absolutely! The government exists to protect those rights. We are citizens, not subjects.
24 posted on 12/06/2002 8:28:06 AM PST by Gary Boldwater
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