Bush Marks End of Ramadan, Visits Mosque (Islam brings hope and comfort)

ap ^ | 12/5/2002 | SCOTT LINDLAW

[TLBSHOW]

By SCOTT LINDLAW, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - With Muslims worldwide growing more suspicious of the United States, President Bush (news - web sites) marked the end of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan with a visit Thursday to a mosque.

"The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that Islam brings hope and comfort to more than 1 billion people worldwide," Bush said. "Islam affirms God's justice and insists on man's moral responsibility."

Bush left his shoes at the door, in keeping with the practice of the Islamic Center of Washington, a national center for Muslim culture and prayer. He also had visited six days after the terrorist attacks last year.

Back then, with a surge in hate crimes against Muslims in the United States, Bush was trying to defuse Americans' anger against Islam. Today, he has a different problem — increased hostility by Muslims around the world against America.

In an international survey released Wednesday, the Pew Global Attitudes Project found the image of the United States is slipping worldwide, and particularly in Middle Eastern countries with large Muslim populations. Large percentages of Muslim respondents in several countries said they believe suicide bomb attacks are a justifiable defense of Islam.

On Wednesday, Bush blamed America's tarnished image among Muslims on "propaganda machines (that) are cranked up in the international community that paints our country in a bad light."

The growing animosity comes at a time when Bush is trying to rally the world against terrorism and gather allies for possible military action against Iraq.

Inside the ornate mosque, Bush offered an explanation of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of Ramadan, and renewed his defense of Islam.

Bush's speech was directed to a national and international audience. There was virtually no one inside except journalists and his staff. A few mosque officials stood next to Bush as he spoke.

"Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity," Bush said.

"Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need, charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns, and gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God's abundance," he said.

From the Muslim event, Bush officially opened the Christmas season at the White House by lighting a Christmas tree just outside the gates.

[sinkspur]

Second if a Muslim reads Bible anyway, he will see that New Testament contains a new message.

Really? A Jew reading the New Testament is as unaffected by it as a Muslim would be.

[Crazymonarch]

Gabriel returns 500 odd years after the resurrection and says to Mohammed look God and I got it all wrong and with my precipitous instruction you will now be top bwana in the saviour stakes...there really isn't any polite way to tell 6 million people they worship satan is there,thats the problem theres too many on the ground,the Roman republic suffered the same fate,an open society will be taken advantage of first you get Britain,then France,then Israel,then Kosovo,then Afghanistan thats the progression so to the politicians by all means keep them happy and keep the oil flowing, but know that the entire western world would be a lot happier if people of olive complexion,swarthy appearance and of a certain religion got told to stay home theres enough taxi drivers and kebab stands thankyou.

[Hank Kerchief]

Let's bash them too. So many to bash, and so little time.

Speaking the truth is not bashing. The Muslim people are universally repressed, either physically or intellectually. The only possible way to free any people from represseion is by clear and unapoligetic statement of the truth. To pretend that Islam is benign only clouds the issue.

If you do not care that a billion people are enslaved by a repressive ideology, that is your choice, but a repressed people are also a dangerous people. They can easily be convinced it is in their own interest to strap explosives to their bodies and blow themselves and as many others as they can to kingdom come.

If you do not care about these people, than at least care about yourself and your neighbors. The same religion that drives the Palestinians is the religion followed by your Muslim neighbors.

Hank

[Darling Lili]

"They're not remaining mum. You want them to denounce, and denounce, and denounce, and denounce, every day, all day, all the time."

Well, why not? Their wahabi brethren are killing and killing and killing all the time! If American muslims are not remaining mum, why is it I am not seeing or hearing them? (Oh, wait... that's right... I DID see one Muslim woman on O'Reilly last week, demanding that the public schools accomodate the muslim diet and their 5 prayer sessions/day)

If they are so afraid of "people like us" isn't it incumbent upon them to work a little harder to reassure us? WE are the ones being threatened and massacred, after all.

"They're hijacking Islam to justify a POLITICAL AGENDA."

Their POLITICAL AGENDA agenda is to turn the whole world into 1999 Afghanistan, in the name of their shared RELIGION. I'm sorry, Sinkspur, but the two are just not mutually exclusive here.

[sinkspur]

There may many Westernized Muslims in America, but it's becoming obvious that we're growing our own terrorist Islamists right here.

Really? Give me a few examples of American terrorist Islamists.

[FITZ]

It's okay to believe people will burn in hell. It's fine with me if that's the approach Muslims took but you look around the world and see it's not the approach.

[A. Pole]

Second if a Muslim reads Bible anyway, he will see that New Testament contains a new message.

Really? A Jew reading the New Testament is as unaffected by it as a Muslim would be.

I know Jews who got VERY affected - they became Christians BECAUSE of reading the New Testament. BTW, this is who the frist Christians came to be - they were the Jews who listened to the Gospel (even before it was written down)

Muslims who would read New Testament (if they disobey prohibition) they might be affected as well. But the sad truth is that a Muslim who become Christian risks his life.

[Torie]

Well, American Muslims are not strapping explosives to their bodies, and going into the mall. The majority of them may have opinions you dislike, as perhaps a majority of adherents of certain other religions may have. I suggest patience. Immigrants have agitated for foreign policy positions relevant to their home countries since time immoral. Over time, things even out. In any event, I suggest you draw a distinction between criminal activities and legal activities. That would be a start.

[sinkspur]

The same religion that drives the Palestinians is the religion followed by your Muslim neighbors.

Hank, my Muslim neighbor drives a GMC Envoy, sends his kids to a CATHOLIC school, and thinks Yassir Arafat is a dumb-ass. He calls him "pizza face."

I'll bet you don't know one Muslim or, if you do, you haven't hung out with him for very long.

[A. Pole]

Give me a few examples of American terrorist Islamists.

"DC Sniper" John Allen Muhammad (Williams), John Walker Lindt.

[FreeReign]

I wonder if the G W Bush will have the courage to declare that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to true peace with God.

I don't need a government official, a president to tell me that Jesus is the way. Why do you need the government to tell you such? What else do you need the government to do for you?

[McGavin999]

Bush is to religion, as what Klinton was (or is) to morality.

Oh, I don't know about that. Yesterday he had a menorah lighting ceramoney in the WH, tonight he went to a mosque to celebrate the end of Ramadan, and tonight he had a CHRISTMAS tree lighting ceramony (note: Not a Holiday tree, a CHRISTMAS tree)

What Bush has done is to honor each and thus allow each to be seperate instead of rolling the whole thing up into one gooey mess.

On Special Report tonight there was a professor who explained what Bush is doing. By praising the moderates he has come down on the side of the moderates and is giving them strength to fight the radicals. It was very interesting. By railing against all muslims, some on this board have actually been giving aid and comfort to the enemy who wants nothing more than to discourage the moderates and have them join the radicals fearing it's the only way to survive against the US.

[Torie]

John Walker Lindt.

A spoiled, over indulged disturbed Anglo Marin County brat. Just your every day Muslim.

[Darling Lili]

Kinda like the rest of the Koran that teaches Muslims to be peaceful and not seek war.

Well... that's true, but it's not extremist Christians out there killing anything that moves, so what would give a muslim cause to interpret the Old Testament so literally (as modern Christianity) in the first place?

Your "outside looking in" analogy just doesn't carry much weight.

[NeoCaveman]

"DC Sniper" John Allen Muhammad (Williams), John Walker Lindt.

And Jose Padilla, and that Cajun Taliban (of course he was raised in Saudi)

[FITZ]

I'll bet you don't know one Muslim or, if you do, you haven't hung out with him for very long.

Sometimes they're scarier after you do that. I worked with an Iranian who was the nicest person ---at least at face value. Quiet good worker, personable but he even said that he liked Americans and even some Jews on a one-to-one basis but when it came down to it, he would do whatever Khomeni told him to do. Pretty scary ---especially to the Jews who worked there.

[A. Pole]

ohn Walker Lindt.

A spoiled, over indulged disturbed Anglo Marin County brat. Just your every day Muslim.

Osama bin Laden is also a spoiled, over indulged brat. So? Is John Allen Muhammad (Williams) a spoiled brat too?

See how Muslims are gaining resolve in Great Britain as their numbers grow.

[sinkspur]

Their wahabi brethren are killing and killing and killing all the time.

The Wahabi are not "brethren" to the Muslims I know. They laugh at them.

If they are so afraid of "people like us" isn't it incumbent upon them to work a little harder to reassure us? WE are the ones being threatened and massacred, after all.

You are not being massacred by American Muslims!

Bush is working very hard to track down and kill those who did massacre and would massacre us.

Their POLITICAL AGENDA agenda is to turn the whole world into 1999 Afghanistan, in the name of their shared RELIGION.

Really? Then why isn't Saudi Arabia, or Qatar, or the Arab Emirates, like 1999 Afghanistan?

I'm sorry, Lili, you're working from stereotypes, which is absolutely the worst place to work from.

[TLBSHOW]

DOBBS: That's a fascinating point. Daniel Pipes?

PIPES: Professor Gerges makes a distinction between the mainstream Islamists and the fringe ones. I would say that's like making a distinction between mainstream Nazis and fringe Nazis. They're all Nazis, they're all the enemy.

To answer your question directly, Lou, I think what Nazism or fascism was to World War II and Marxist/Leninism was to the Cold War, militant Islam is to this war. It is the ideology that lurks behind the states, the organizations, the individuals. All the people who are fighting us now in this war are devoted to a single set of-broadly speaking, a single set of ideas. These are ideas which are extreme extremely inimical to our own, and they are very aggressive. They want to impose their ideas on us through violent means or peaceful means.

They are our enemy very clearly, and they're a long-term, determined, devoted enemy. I'm surprised that Professor Gerges is surprised by the intensity of their attack on us, because they declared war on us in 1979. Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in Iran and said "Death to America."

You know what? Hundreds of Americans died as a result of that. It is nothing new. It's been going on now for two decades.

GERGES: May I add a footnote, though?

DOBBS: Please.

GERGES: Well, I think the critical questions are the following-is it in our interests to make an enemy of the entire Islamist camp? Is it in our vital interests to lump all Islamists together and ignore the many shades of colors and view between and within Islamists?

Let's remember there are enlightened Islamists and reactionary and fascist Islamists as well. And I think that up until 9/11 American policymakers made a clear distinction between mainstream and moderate Islamists and fringe Islamist movements who use violence and force. I hope that this particular distinction remains in place.

PIPES: It is not particularly in our interest to have them all be our enemy, but they are our enemy whether we-whether you recognize it or not. They're our enemy.

DOBBS: Professor Deeb, let me bring you in, if I may.

DEEB: Yes. Well, my knowledge of the region makes me raise an eyebrow, if I may say so, about the assertions that Islamists are the enemies of the United States.

I would say that basically, Islamists are afraid of the United States. They're afraid of the power, military and cultural power of the U.S. and of the West. And they are reacting out of fear. They're not reacting in order to impose their own ideologies or their own views on the United States.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would believe that the ideas of bin Laden would actually transform the United States or would convert Americans. But Islamists are afraid that American ideas, American ideals of democracy, of openness, of inclusiveness will change the hearts and minds of many in the region.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/421/

[Lion's Cub]

As practiced by most Muslims, it is a peaceful religion.

Please point out the countries where muslims live peacefully. Also, please name those muslim countries that are tolerant of other religions.