Disastrous utopia

TownHall.com ^ | 12/05/02 | Thomas Sowell

[The Obstinate Insomniac]

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[CFC__VRWC]

Nowhere have people been willing to work as well for the common good as they do for their own benefit. Perhaps in some other galaxy there are creatures who would, but the track record of socialism among human beings on earth shows that this is not the place.

snip

There is no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over other people is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.

When I was in college, I used to listen to Jim Bohannon on the radio at nights. His take on the utter failure of socialism was that as a philosophy, it ignores the inherent selfishness of man. On that point I agree completely with him.

I would add that capitalism succeeds because it acknowledges that inherent selfishness and harnesses it.

[SpaceBar]

"Socialism is a wonderful idea."

As a philosophy rooted in pipe dreams, and which ignores human nature, I would suggest that the very first sentence of this article is patently false.

[The Obstinate Insomniac]

I would add that capitalism succeeds because it acknowledges that inherent selfishness and harnesses it.

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[John Valentine]

I would wholeheartedly agree.

It is totally unlike Sowell to make such a statement - and the author of "Knowledge and Decisions" cetainly knows better. Sowell has almost uniquely demonstrated, exhaustively and conclusively, just why socialism is not a "wonderful idea", but perhaps the single worst idea ever to occur within an adult human mind.

[Sam Cree]

I agree that the first sentence is false, the idea of everyone working together for the common good is not wonderful at all, unless they are doing it of their own free will. The idea of a "common good" suggests that individual dreams and goals will be replaced by a state, official dream and goal

[Pompah]

Socialism is a wonderful idea.
I suppose that's true, if you're willing to give up the Freedom you were born with. And the Freedom of your children,and their children.
To break the bond passed down by your Father's Fathers. Not this Lad.. Not ever.
Pax Aye Pompah.

[Sabertooth]

Socialism is a wonderful idea. It is only as a reality that it has been disastrous. Among people of every race, color, and creed, all around the world, socialism has led to hunger in countries that used to have surplus food to export.

Looky!

[Willie Green]

The idea of a "common good" suggests that individual dreams and goals will be replaced by a state, official dream and goal

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[Sabertooth]

It is totally unlike Sowell to make such a statement

Sounds like your sarcasm detectors need refills.

[Sam Cree]

Hi Willie. I wasn't sure whether you were disagreeing with me or not, though I suspect you may be disagreeing?

IMO, our Constitution supports my position.

[SpaceBar]

Another interesting point about socialism/communism that is usually not addressed, is that neither system has ever actually existed. The "normal" course of social revolution, followed by the abolition of the classes, followed by the establishment of a central authority, followed by the dissolution of that authority revealing a classless worker's utopia, has always gotten stalled at the second to last step, resulting in de-facto military dictatorships that will never ever relinquish control. It's all just a big lie to get everyone under one big thumb. No more, no less.

[struwwelpeter]

Socialism seems to work in families. Mom and Dad are "productive", but the kids are too young to do as much as the adults. So the parents give, the kids take - from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.

In societies you end up with a garbage collector and his nine kids receiving a bigger apartment and more salary then the ER physician and his dermatologist wife. Over time this leads to a cynical and disallusioned productive class doing the bare minimum.

Unfair Taxes can have the same "Atlas Shrugs" effect.

[Sam Cree]

"It's all just a big lie to get everyone under one big thumb"

I agree that there's people out there for whom the main appeal of socialism is its ability to give them power over others. Hillary comes to mind.

[Sam Cree]

I suppose socialism works pretty well in small tribal type societies as well, where everyone's needs are closely intertwined.

[SpaceBar]

I'm not discounting your observation that Sowell might have meant his opening statement tongue in cheek. Perhaps some phony sarcasm html tags would have tipped me off. I still however contend that communism/socialism has been a brainfart of massive proportions from the instant it was conceived, let alone implimented.

[LiteKeeper]

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[SpaceBar]

"In societies you end up with a garbage collector and his nine kids receiving a bigger apartment and more salary then the ER physician and his dermatologist wife. Over time this leads to a cynical and disallusioned productive class doing the bare minimum."

I have yet to have someone explain to me why in the United States our system taxes wealth and subsidises poverty. After all, everyone knows that if you tax something, you get less of it. And if you subsidise something, you get more of it.

[Misterioso]

I suppose socialism works pretty well in small tribal type societies as well, where everyone's needs are closely intertwined.

And individual rights are unheard of.