Judge: Court can decide if dirty-bomb suspect properly held; Padilla can meet with attorneys

Associated Press / SFGate

[RCW2001]

Wednesday, December 4, 2002
©2002 Associated Press

URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2002/12/04/national1021EST0545.DTL

(12-04) 07:21 PST NEW YORK (AP) --

A federal court has authority to decide whether Jose Padilla, a former Chicago gang member accused of plotting with terrorists to detonate a radioactive "dirty" bomb, was properly detained as an enemy combatant, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Padilla has been barred from meeting with lawyers since his arrest May 8. U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey said Wednesday that Padilla may meet with them now.

The ruling was a blow to the government, which had argued that Padilla, a U.S. citizen, had no right to challenge its actions in court because he was detained as an "enemy combatant."

Padilla was arrested on a material witness warrant issued by a grand jury and secretly held in a federal jail. He has been in a Navy brig since he was declared an "enemy combatant" in June and transferred to the control of the U.S. military. The government says the "enemy combatant" declaration allows it to hold him without formal criminal charges.

The government said Padilla twice met with senior al-Qaida operatives in Pakistan in March and discussed a plot to detonate a radiological weapon in the United States.

A spokesman for U.S. Attorney James B. Comey had no immediate comment. Lawyers for Padilla did not immediately return a telephone message for comment.

©2002 Associated Press  

[jwalsh07]

Two points.

The trial of the one-eyed "American Citizen" responsible for the first attack on the WTC resulted in several items becoming public which aided and abetted the second attack on 9/11. Those were the governments being forced in open court to reveal that they knew Usama bin Laden's cell phone number and also being forced to turn over all architecturals regarding construction of the WTC.

And the second point is this. When the drone sent a missile up the tailpipe of the car in Yemen with the six bad guys, one of those bad guys was a United States citizen. Is the government guilty of murder?

[jwalsh07]

Two points.

The trial of the one-eyed "American Citizen" responsible for the first attack on the WTC resulted in several items becoming public which aided and abetted the second attack on 9/11. Those were the governments being forced in open court to reveal that they knew Usama bin Laden's cell phone number and also being forced to turn over all architecturals regarding construction of the WTC.

And the second point is this. When the drone sent a missile up the tailpipe of the car in Yemen with the six bad guys, one of those bad guys was a United States citizen. Is the government guilty of murder?

[jwalsh07]

The government isn't rounding up anybody. Two American citizens are being held as enemy combatants. Padilla and Hamdi. One American citizen was killed in Yemen a couple of weeks ago while he was in the company of his fellow travelers.

The judiciary is stepping on the CIC's perogatives here. Only one man can execute the war on terrorism and it isn't a Judge.

[onedoug]

There's more to this, and you know it. Though if you feel that Padilla should be able to engage in radiological homicide of Americans - as the evidence suggets he was plotting - so that the civil rights of all Americans somehow by that process are otherwise protected...it's your right to say it.

[AdamSelene235]

There's more to this, and you know it.

A jury and a judge need to know it. I know next to nothing about the case beyond the fact the is an obvious Constitutional breech.

Though if you feel that Padilla should be able to engage in radiological homicide of Americans - as the evidence suggets he was plotting -

There is no evidence available for public inspection.

[Always A Marine]

The trial of the one-eyed "American Citizen" responsible for the first attack on the WTC resulted in several items becoming public which aided and abetted the second attack on 9/11. Those were the governments being forced in open court to reveal that they knew Usama bin Laden's cell phone number and also being forced to turn over all architecturals regarding construction of the WTC.

That is the risk of a free society; you're alternative leaves too much unchecked power in the hands of one man. I do not trust a police state.

And the second point is this. When the drone sent a missile up the tailpipe of the car in Yemen with the six bad guys, one of those bad guys was a United States citizen. Is the government guilty of murder?

Of course not. That bad guy was overseas, and in the company of targeted combatants.

[Always A Marine]

The judiciary is stepping on the CIC's perogatives here.

I beg your pardon, sir. It is never the prerogative of the President to violate the Constitution of the United States. His highest oath is to support and defend the Constitution, and one of the chief roles of the Judiciary to ensure that neither the President nor the Congress oversteps it. What we are discussing is a Citizen being held incommunicado, without charges and without legal representation, on the whim of the President and the Attorney General.

[jwalsh07]

That is the risk of a free society; you're alternative leaves too much unchecked power in the hands of one man. I do not trust a police state.

A police state? Please. There are currently two American citizens being held as enemy combatants. One is Padilla and the other is Hamdi. There is no police state. There is a state of war and the Constitution grants the POTUS the powers of CIC during war. The POTUS has declared Padilla and Hamdi as enemy combatants and that's his preogative and it has precedent.

Of course not. That bad guy was overseas, and in the company of targeted combatants

So, the rights of citizens are geographically dependent and not absolute as you stated above?

[jwalsh07]

I beg your pardon, sir.

Beg away but I have always worked for a living so the sir deal is a bit much.

It is never the prerogative of the President to violate the Constitution of the United States. His highest oath is to support and defend the Constitution, and one of the chief roles of the Judiciary to ensure that neither the President nor the Congress oversteps it.

The Constitution is clear. The POTUS is the CIC during war, not a Judge in New York. What Constitution are you reading from?

What we are discussing is a Citizen being held incommunicado, without charges and without legal representation, on the whim of the President and the Attorney General.

No what we are discussing is an enemy combatant who happens to be a US citizen. They are referred to in the Rules of War as saboteurs and spies and as such are, according to the rules of war and Ex-Parte Quirin, enemy combatants.

Your use of the word whim is whimiscial by the way.

But tell me is Hamdi also being held on a whim?

[Stultis]

You are exactly right. Our system is quite strong enough to try Padilla properly and by the rules. We don't need to cut any Constitutional corners. If Padilla is guilty, he'll get what he deserves. What concerns me is that the government might be using this tactic to punish or dispose of people who they know they CANNOT prove are guilty of any wrongdoing -- they just think that they are "bad people" who need to be gotten rid of.

Your argument on legal principal is credible (if debatable) but your speculative "explanation" (underlined portion) is pure horsepucky. Whether rightly or wrongly, with or without adequate legal justification, Padilla is being isolated from lawyers for only one reason: The P.O.S. is a terrorist. He met repeatedly with al-Qaeda operatives. He has intelligence information that we want, and that may thwart future attacks, and keeping him in isolation is the best, and possibly only, chance of getting it.

Here's an update to this story:

Dirty-Bomb Suspect Lawyer Meeting Debated (serious setback to Padilla interrogation sez govt)

[Grover_Cleveland]

The constitution lives.