Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful

washington post ^ | 11/30/02

[knak]

President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism.

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as "a faith based upon peace and love and compassion" and a religion committed to "morality and learning and tolerance."

[TLBSHOW]

Did you read this story? Have you heard what the Pope said today? Why is it so hard to say Islam is the enemy? All it is is a cult of death.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Are you no longer able to utter a complete sentence?

Will you simply be communicating in slogans from here on out?

[TLBSHOW]

Calling Islam a peaceful religion "is an increasingly hard argument to make," said Kenneth Adelman, a former Reagan official who serves on the Bush Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. "The more you examine the religion, the more militaristic it seems. After all, its founder, Mohammed, was a warrior, not a peace advocate like Jesus."

snip

Another member of the Pentagon advisory board, Eliot Cohen of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, wrote an article on the Wall Street Journal editorial page arguing that the enemy of the United States enemy is not terrorism "but militant Islam." "The enemy has an ideology, and an hour spent surfing the Web will give the average citizen at least the kind of insights that he or she might have found during World Wars II and III by reading 'Mein Kampf' or the writings of Lenin, Stalin or Mao."

From story above

[Minutemen]

Amen brother, you are preachin' to the choir.

[Jhoffa_]

Submit, roll over and let them kill us.

Well, that's clearly BS. IMO, we should fight them.

Just make sure we're beating Bin Laden and not Lamonte..

Because the latter would be unjust.

PS: This frightens me allot. Sure, it's easy to impose harsh penalties and enact laws against Arabs. I mean, look at them. You can pick them out of a crowd easily. There is no hiding them. Personally I find them repulsive, so it's easy.

But those same laws are going to be in place tomorrow. It's like a cannon that can be aimed down anyones throat.

Muslims today, Catholics tomorrow, then the Hindu's.. All you have to do is find a crime large enough to effectively call the whole religion and/or race complicit and you're home free.

You know, if it was Tim McVeigh's crowd that did 9/11 things would be much, much different and if it happened under Clinton's watch we would all be in prison just for logging on to FR.

Remember that.

[Minutemen]

And remember,in Muslim countries, all the Christians stand out like a sore thumb too. Also, 8 million Muslim "citizens" do not make 8 million "Americans". Seems U.S. citizenship can be bought or stolen nowadays.

[Jhoffa_]

Point is Islam must be stopped. Islam is the problem. Islam is a murder cult.

Lamonte never murdered anyone.. He should be stopped?

Look, I would LOVE to live in a religious theocracy. It's the height of existence.

Men can't administrate these however, only God can. It's a proven fact, just take a lesson or ten from history.

Also, attacking "Islam" or "bombing mecca" (often parroted by the mindless) sounds like a simple plan, but it's suicidal. That's what Bin Laden is counting on to bolster his support.

Men ignore other men, but they will do anything for God. Jump off a bridge because I said so? Hell no. Now, what if God almighty tells you to? You will do it in a second.

That's the kind of motivation Bin Laden is counting on. IMHO, the success of his movement depends on men doing what they would not normally do. Thus, attacking "Islam" is essentially handing him a victory. It's a mistake, and it's an obvious one.

IMHO.

[lonevoice]

If a group of thousands of sociopathic extremists start strapping explosives to their children and sending them as human bombs to murder large numbers of innocent people in public squares all across the world, while professing that this is an expression of their love for Christ, do you doubt that the Christian community would rise up in a howl of outrage calling for their heads??

Yes, I want them (the peaceful Muslem Americans) to do no less than that. I want to see their Clerics, leaders, and average citizens howling their outrage over these acts of terrorism. I want to see them on television, in the media, at protest demonstrations demanding an end to the violence, and execution of the perpetrators.

Instead, I mostly see them wringing their hands and lamenting that they might be mistreated. If a wide sampling of visible mainstream news sources aren't showing abundance evidence of their outrage, would you argue that this is a result of censorship?

[Jhoffa_]

PS: I guess it could be said more simply if you looked at Osama and the terrorists as using Islam to attach themselves to thousands of "potential warriors" the world over.

They need to use Islam as a binder. Otherwise people would denounce them for their atrocities.

Attacking "Islam" at large will just aid them. Men will do anything to defend their faith, and Osama knows that. Further, he's counting on that.

IMO, it is better to do as President Bush (of which I am no big fan) has done and draw a distinction between Islam as a religion and terrorism as a means to an end.

Thus Osama and his potential recruits are separated.

[Jhoffa_]

However, unlike Germany's persecution against the Jews, this one will be against an enemy who well deserves it.

I am sure that's how the "in the know" Germans justified it to themselves also.

"Hell, they deserve it!"

Dangerous ground for us to cross collectively, because you know that at this point in time we won't lose a war unless we intend to.

So please be sure you are better than the Nazi's when you declare "war" on all of Islam for the actions of a few.

[Drew68]

So please be sure you are better than the Nazi's when you declare "war" on all of Islam for the actions of a few.

I'm certain of it. Unlike the Nazis, my beliefs will be vindicated by history.

[Jhoffa_]

You know, if I were a mean spirited person I might pray that you live by your own rules.

Fortunately for you, under normal circumstances I am not mean.

What if Tim McVeigh's crowd carried out 9/11 Drew? Then what?

What if it was all a Catholic conspiracy? What would you do?

Cheer as half of FR swung from lamp posts for crimes they not only didn't commit but had no knowledge of?

If you answer honestly you will condemn yourself.

[Jhoffa_]

I'm certain of it. Unlike the Nazis, my beliefs will be vindicated by history.

OH! and PS: If you ever recover from the shock of being held to your own standards please inform me as to how history, the planet and God Almighty himself would be served my killing my maintenance man...

?

[FreedomPoster]

Of course, the great majority of Muslims are peaceful -- so what?

I've been posting this link a lot, as I believe it well communicates a fundamental truth about this conflict. I thank onedoug for posting it above, and encourage others to use it, as well. It seems obvious that you guys haven't read it.

Personally, I am extremely intolerant (gasp! he's intolerant!) towards Islam. I will become tolerant when there are churches and synagogues in downtown Mecca, Medina, Riyadh, Islamabad, Karachi, Jakarta, and similar locales, and the locals aren't trying to burn down the structures and kill the attendees.

Until then, trying to convince me that "Islam is a peaceful religion" based on one nice maintenance guy in Cincy, is a total waste of time, and simply represents the logical fallacy of an Unrepresentative Sample.

Islam is what Muslims do, and anyone who has bothered to understand the basics of the long-term history, and current events worldwide, knows that, Yes Virginia, We Are at War with Islam.

[GeekDejure]

Then how do you suggest we reslve(sic) this matter? Hmmm?

I have NO idea whatsoever how we can resolve this matter !!!

I'm merely a paralyzed (paraplegic) "worthless eater" with less than a complete physical brain . . . but at least I'm smart enough to acknowledge the plainly written EVIL ISLAMIC ORDERS that reside within the Koran . . . the same evil orders that drive Muzzle-em murderers and explosion experts to obliterate anything and everything that is "Infidel" related !!! Wherefore I say again . . .

How long must we wait for George W. Twit to READ the Koran and ACKNOWLEDGE the "Axis of Evil" that resides therein ???

And so, Jhoffa, how do YOU suggest we reslove this matter ???

Hmmm ???

[Miss Marple]

Big letters do not necessarily mean you have won the argument.

[MissAmericanPie]

I don't think it's a matter of conservatives not understanding what Bush "may" be attempting to do in not naming Islam as the enemy. It's that we don't agree with that policy at all.

Frankly I don't believe that is his aim at all given the evidence. I prefer to believe my lying eyes on everything, and depend on reason based on evidence. Want the evidence?

1.) The F.B.I. were holding the Saudi Royals at the airport on 9-11 as they were trying to flee the scene of their crime. Bush would not allow them to be detained for questioning. Their's was the only plane allowed in the air.

2.) Instead of extending that "Conservative Compassion" to shell shocked Americans, he pulls off his shoes on 9-12 respectfully tip toes into a Mosque, surrounds himself with the heads of terrorist charity fronts, and demands respect and compassion for them.

He stood right there in front of all of America with people that paid for and promoted the destruction of 9-11, the killing of 3,000 people and demanded they be respected and their civil rights not violated and no one says a word about it, or even appears upset about it. Why? Was I the only person on the planet galled by that or did this action reach some stratouspheric level of brazeness that minds recoiled in denial?

3.) He holds a big meeting at the "People's House" surrounding himself with more terrorist supporters.

4.) Then this "christian" holds a Ramadan celebration at the "People's House" while the Missus is busy mailing out "Happy Holiday" cards and being very careful that the word Christmas and Christian doesn't escape any of their mouths.

I'm fully convinced that the man means what he says, at least regarding his respect of Islam. It is confusing though, given Bush's own words, "If you support a terrorist, give aid and comfort to a terrorist you are a terrorist", what does showing up on tv and throwing lavish religious celebrations with terrorist supporters make one I wonder?

Where I come from that is called talking out of both sides of your mouth and conservatives neither admire or respect that no matter what a person's political or diplomatic "aim" is perceived to be. Sometimes silence is golden.

Bush has painted a picture of himself as a man with little or no regard or compassion for Americans, much less any understanding of what defines an American. His embracing of the CEO's of terrorism on more than one occassion, his embracing of the abuse of illegal immigration against tax paying Americans, his disregard for our sovereignty. His dam** the torpedo's and the Constitution, full speed ahead to globalism even if you have to step on the face of every American to get there is painted in red. I didn't paint it for him, you didn't paint it for him, but I will not be denied the right to view that picture and draw my own logical conclusions.

"Every time he bends over backwards for Islam, he is pissing in our faces, and blaming us for complaining. It is condescending on a level never before reached.

Captain, you are not the only one that acknowledges the obvious but you certainly number among the few that will. Bush's pandering to Islam, to illegals, against Americans, is a continuous stream of it right in our faces.

[Jhoffa_]

You made three mistakes.

1)

I have NO idea whatsoever how we can resolve this matter !!!

But you know it's not by killing Lamonte. He's not the problem and, thus he's not the solution.. Actually if you want to be honest about it, he's the only silver lining here.

2)

I'm merely a paralyzed (paraplegic) "worthless eater"

Shut up. You are diminishing God's creations.

You are a brilliant person, a walking computer to a degree that's unimaginable. We can't duplicate you and till we can you are irreplaceable.

Tell me, would you make cracks about Jim Rob and his wheel chair? Is he less of a man? No.

Ya know, we love you for what you are inside, the only thing you can choose. You can't choose your color, you can't choose allot of things but you can choose what you believe. And that's what we like and respect.

3) You used like a +4 font.. For Shame! You should know better.

PS: "Worthless eater" is actually akin to the Nazi theory of "Worthless Life" Where people were judged on their appearance and bloodlines as opposed to their merits.

We are far past that now.. 60 years past.

[rambo316]

And you know what? Until that happens, it is an insult to our soldiers who have parished in this PC war. That is all it is. And it is very sad to say the least. Take for example, the nameing of this operation. As you probably know, It was called Infinite Justice but because it offended some people, Bush changed it to Enduring Freedom. But because MaHa Rushie never mentions it, all the sheeple on FR never talk about it.