Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful

washington post ^ | 11/30/02

[knak]

President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism.

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as "a faith based upon peace and love and compassion" and a religion committed to "morality and learning and tolerance."

[FreedomPoster]

>>To hand Osama and the diaper head brigade a few billion warriors.

That number is far too high to start with, and I suspect that after a serious enough lesson were delivered, the number of warriors would melt away. There is a need for a serious lesson, so that the next time some hothead feels a need to attack the civilized world, his neighbors take care of the problem to prevent retribution from the West/America.

Cold blooded? Yes. But a damn sight better than another WTC or similar event.

The ugly reality is that these animals understand strength, and strength only. History has shown they make much better neighbors when they have a foot on their neck. We have been showing them way too much Chamberlainian "peace in our time" over the last 45+ years.

>There are many reasons why a war on "Islam" outright is a mistake. They range from a complete lack of moral justification to political concerns to tactical errors.

I beg to differ on the moral justification. We warred on the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets for similar moral justifications. Just the way these societies treat/subjugate women is justification. Pile on their treatment of infidels (terror bombings, forced conversions, etc), and it becomes a no-brainer.

>>More faulty logic: Did we go to war with the Germans race or with Nazi Germany as our enemy?

We were unable to seperate the two. Therefore, we warred on the German people until we could kill/subjugate all the Nazis. Then we removed the evil ideology from the Germans.

>>Also, speaking of the Nazi's. Hitler went to "war" with Jews as a race of people. Be careful, because that's akin to what I see advocated here.

Significant percentages of the Jews weren't attacking infidels. The Jewish religion doesn't seem to advocate killing non-believers, at least they weren't doing so and aren't doing so. The Islamics are. This is a pretty fundamental difference.

Until the Islamics show they are working diligently to take care of their bloodthirsty elements, I shall remain intolerant of this evil, totalitarian political system that cloaks itself as a religion.

[Jhoffa_]

.. evil, totalitarian political system that cloaks itself as a religion.

There is some truth to this statement. It's completely true as far as Osama and his bunch go.

Since it is true, I feel drawing a distinction between the jihadders and people like Lamonte is useful because it deligitimizes Osama's cries that "Islam is under attack from the infidels, come and join us!" When the reality is only the Palestinians, Osama's bunch and other militants are under "attack from the infidels" as they deserve to be.

We can not agree if you wish. I have said about all I have to say on the subject.

[nanny]

[Until then, trying to convince me that "Islam is a peaceful religion" based on one nice maintenance guy in Cincy, is a total waste of time, and simply represents the]

Yes, that is the point isn't it? I am truly sure there are peaceful Muslims - I don't know any - but don't know any Muslims at all except what I have seen on TV. Now, the fact the probably are some - does anyone think they will all come to the aid of non Muslims if they are attacked by Muslims? Or will they take the side of Muslims?

Now assume they seem like such nice friendly people - but it has been my experience that if someone has something horrendous to hide - they are very good at hiding it. If these people really do intend harm to the US - are they going to live next door to you or work with you and tell you every day they are going to attack you or wish you dead?

Do you know the thing that makes me wonder just how peaceful they are - is the very fact our President is going out of his way to kick dirt in our face and proclaim to the world how wonderful they are. You know it just seems he is trying too hard. We have been treated to many tolerance lessons (haven't heard any for Christians yet) and threats and sock-feet visits to mosque and celebration of their holiday in the WH - and we are now bigots if we don't like it. Do you get my drift - I don't think he believes it for one minute - he just hopes he can talk you into it, coerce you into it , or use the law to make you accept it (or at least keep your mouth shut).

Remember calling someone a name like BIGOT or RACIST is just a way to intimidate and attempt to shut you up. It means absolutely nothing. It has no facts or common sense - just intended intimidation and it is just ludicrous and sad for our President (or his spokesman) to use.

[Delphinium]

The first Muslim settlement in the New World

where is that?

I guess we should all judge Christianity by the actions of the KKK

No that doesn't happen,and Christians are the first to speak up,and stand up against KKK activities. I would like to see the Muslims do the same against their more radical brethren.

[Delphinium]

Islam is inherently incompatible with a constitutional republic

You are right, Islam is a religion that does not believe in freedom. Islam is Arabic for surrender or submission. Muslim means one who submits.

[TLBSHOW]

Too many have stood up in the last few weeks against this attack against Christians by Powell and Bush. Like Coulter and Robertson and Pipes and all the other non BRainWashed writers.

The only racist and bigots I see is the muslims from the cult Islam!

[Delphinium]

I agree with you that the president is being wise in much of what he is doing. Not perfect, but thats why we need to continually pray for him. Media such as the Washington post would like to cause Bush to loose the support of the Christian right.

[inflorida]

If a group of thousands of sociopathic extremists start strapping explosives to their children and sending them as human bombs to murder large numbers of innocent people in public squares all across the world, while professing that this is an expression of their love for Christ, do you doubt that the Christian community would rise up in a howl of outrage calling for their heads??

Yes, I want them (the peaceful Muslem Americans) to do no less than that. I want to see their Clerics, leaders, and average citizens howling their outrage over these acts of terrorism. I want to see them on television, in the media, at protest demonstrations demanding an end to the violence, and execution of the perpetrators.

That is exactly how I feel about it. If only a minority of muslims are violent then why aren't the peaceful ones speaking out against these barbaric acts?!? Their silence is deafening.

[TLBSHOW]

In message to Pakistani Muslims, Blair explains reasons for threatening Iraq

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021130/ap_wo_en_po/as_gen_pakistan_blair_1

[Jorge]

A handful of radicals are trying to goad billions of people into a religious war, and some are willing to be manipulated right into the carnage in the name of Christendom.

I guess we should all judge Christianity by the actions of the KKK.

Well said.

Bush is President of ALL Americans, including Muslims.
He clearly wants to prevent the acts of a few fanatics from blowing up in to a full fledged religious war.....much to the dismay of some of his extremely foolish and short sighted critics here on FR.

[Delphinium]

reasons for threatening Iraq Not sure what you mean by this. I know why we are threatening to go to war with Iraq. The question here is why are the radical Muslim countries starting a war with us? Its a religious war.

[TLBSHOW]

its in the link! and read this!

Simply put, it’s time for all of us to learn more details about Islam. As we do, we’ll discover that the sinister spirit of violence and hatred that inflames so many fundamentalist Muslims is indeed the attitude taught in the Quran.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798501/posts

[Morrigan]

Thank you for saying what has been on my mind! As a woman, I can say I don't care if your Muslim neighbor or grocer is a sweet old man. His religion still tells him to treat women like sh!t.

As a woman, I find Islam to be the most repugnant, insulting school of thought (it isn't really a religion, in my mind) to ever come down the pipe regarding females and their role in this world. Any self respecting woman would reject this stupid, violent "religion" at every turn.

I feel sorry for the women that are subjected to torture, humiliation, and death at the hands of "peaceful" Muslims every day. Not all women have the capacity to protect themselves from these evil, soulless, misogynist predators.

I revile them. I don't fear them. If sharia is ever implemented anywhere in the US, I won't worry about my own safety.

My daddy taught me how to shoot.

[Delphinium]

Thanks, that was a good article. I respect Pat Robertson for not being afraid of truth.

[BenR2]

Bush is President of ALL Americans, including Muslims. He clearly wants to prevent the acts of a few fanatics from blowing up in to a full fledged religious war.....much to the dismay of some of his extremely foolish and short sighted critics here on FR.

Help me here? The President himself has told us REPEATEDLY that we are ALREADY at war. Why are you quibbling as to whether it is "full-fledged" or not? Something tells me that for the al-Qaeda, it is ALREADY full-fledged, as they have done a pretty good job of striking out at us already.

If you and President Bush are so deeply concerned about the welfare of American Muslims (who have given handsomely to "charities" directing their funds toward terrorist groups), then why don't the US Muslims do like the Japanese-Americans of WWII did, and form a combat unit like the 442d, and go fight the terrorists with a like ferocity. (Note: the 442 sustained a casualty rate far in excess of 100% while kicking the Germans' asses.)

Instead, I see our President hosting Ramadan gatherings in the White House, and American Muslims whining about how most Americans 'aren't nice' to them. They should be out making it clear that they adamantly OPPOSE al-Qaeda!

[Delphinium]

Two articles in the L.A. Times wrote about Muslims in Indonesia forcing Christians of all denominations to convert to Islam or get their throats slit. Thousands upon thousands of Christians were first converted and, according to rigid Islamic religious dictate, forced to undergo sexual mutilation of their foreskin or clitoris (with kitchen knives and razor blades) to make them conform to Muslim standards. Then they are enslaved to their local Muslim chieftain. This was not some aberration of Islam but rather business as usual for all but the so-called "moderate" factions. This is Islam's sad legacy of murder, terror, lies and brainwashing to advance their cause of global conversion and subjugation... their so-called "personal struggle"... THEIR "Jihad!"

this came from here
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797437/posts
moderate factions? And people can compare Christianity to this?

[American in Israel]

I have actually posted here a number of times that do not mistake Arabs for Islam. I actually like Arabs a lot. But Islam is eating them alive. I do not consider the Arabs or the Indonesians the problem, they are just people. It is the teachings of Islam that is a sick religious cult.

I agree with modesty of dress for women, I think alcohol is easily taken to excess, there are many points of Islam I can easily accept. But to kill people and torture them for God is beyond sick, I think is shows that their god has two horns sprouting from his head.

As for my respectful tone, I wish I could claim that more often, I tend to go on the warpath most times.

As to the topic of this thread, I dispute Bush's portrayal of Islam. As another poster wisely pointed out, Mohammad has two faces, the nice one he tends to portray to the western world, the real one is much more apparent over here.

For example, today we are on a terror lockdown alert. The stadiums are closed, riding the bus is a double or nothing bet and the Hizbulla are telling us that they will attack broad scale if Israel damages the Mosque on the Temple mount.

Two things I have to say about that. Israel has no intentions of damaging the Mosque, heck they do not even go up there to keep from "offending" Moslems. It is only being said to keep the band wagon going by the Hizbulla, to create a threat to justify their killing spree.

Secondly it is an empty threat, as people who target school buses with shrapnel bombs and mines do not have restraint. If they could attack more broadly they would already.

Both obvious points are both obvious lies, and being said for Arabic consumption. That is what makes it so easy to see on our side of the street, that set of lies are not aimed at us. But the stuff you hear over there are carefully crafted and aimed at you. Islam is a religion that embraces lies, and has created the worlds best liars. All from the Father of lies is my guess.

Bush is embracing the lies, either because it is useful to his efforts in the short term or because he is naïve, or perhaps a Globalist over an American is hard to guess. But embracing lies is wrong and will not bring good fruit in the long run. So I as a conservative disagree with Bush. Having lived in the Intifadda perhaps gives me a different perspective.

[Miss Marple]

You know, you are really annoying me. I am quite tired of your ranting, and I am sick of your BIG LETTERS!!!

There is nothing new in the Koran. It has had the same words in it for hundreds of years. It is wrong. I said so.,

What I see from you is an attempt to intimidate and bully those who will not call for a religious war. You can go pound sand. I don't care HOW big you make your font! My opinion is as valid as yours, and I will not allow you to make this site a place of religious warfare because you fancy yourself an expert on Islam because of some quotes you post on the internet.

Feh.

[Jhoffa_]

Two things I have to say about that. Israel has no intentions of damaging the Mosque..

I know that, they are very level headed. You don't see the Jews doing "mean spirited" things like this. They are only interested in their own defence. Kind of a shining light of morality and intellect in an otherwise dark middle east.

It is only being said to keep the band wagon going by the Hizbulla, to create a threat to justify their killing spree.

Oh yeah and they need to be careful. Trying to use Islam to polevault to power like this is a dangerous game.

They might get their power, or they just might get a global holy war instead. There are way to many people tying their personal ambitions to Islam's cart.