FReepers Against Voter Fraud - (Thread 2)

November 29, 2002 | sweetliberty

[TheLion]

That gif is great! You could also call the daily thread "Rat Chat".

[TheLion]

Alabama:

Election debate may spur state law change

By Matt Collins - Staff Writer
January 16, 2003

With Gov. Siegelman's loss in the election race to Bob Riley last November, Alabama's election laws became a center of debate.
Siegelman's campaign was denied a recount of the election results.

The law, which allows recounts only in specific circumstances, barred the governor's supporters from having votes recounted after the election ended with Siegelman losing by less than 1 percent of the total votes.

As the law stands, a state recount is not allowed. Instead, recounts must be called in each individual county, and the law does not allow for a recount just because the final count is close.

Siegelman called for an election reform committee within a year of the 2000 presidential election and the troublesome recounts in Florida that followed.

"The secretary of state met with his subcommittee and issued a report on possible election reforms for Alabama," said Vicki Balogh, the secretary of state's director of elections. "The committee hasn't met since then."

Any changes to the law would have to go through the state legislature.

"It's a long process to get the law changed, but necessary," Balogh said.

Michael Ciamarra of the Alabama Policy Institute said that the recount issue is an example of how important the need for election law reform is in Alabama.

"An automatic recount law should be re-evaluated," Ciamarra said. "Voter ID would be the most important reform. Many states already have such laws."

"We wouldn't necessarily want to require photo identification to vote," Ciamarra said. "We don't want to disenfranchise anyone." In the Institute's proposed election-reform law, voters without a photo ID would be given a different ballot that could be challenged if any issues arose.

"Our election reform has been introduced to the state legislature and has been passed many times in the last six years, and has been pre-approved by the Justice Department," Ciamarra said. "It just hasn't passed by the state senate."

Besides voter ID, the institute is also looking to establish equal representation of both political parties at all polling sites.

"We would also like to have uniform polling hours in all counties and increased penalties for voter fraud," Ciamarra said.

Election reform is enjoying bipartisan support, especially with the recent election results.

http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/01/16/3e26cf5d51532

[TheLion]

South Dakota:

Found this little gem while surfing for voter fraud news.

"If the state's Attorney General's office isn't going to enforce voting fraud misdemeanors, then it must provide the public a list of other misdemeanors it may choose not to enforce. Shoplifting? Marijuana possession? Reckless driving? Just let us know what we can get away with".

"There's always room for voter fraud on my watch as attorney general, because I'm too big of a wimp to do anything about it. Oh, sure, I'll kick around the Gina Score family and act big and tough; but when the time comes to confront a U.S. senator and his thugs for teensy weensy misdemeanors in a little ol' federal election, I'll run for the shade faster than a bald guy without a hat on a hundred-degree day in July."

http://www.zwire.com/site/News.cfm?BRD=2240&dept_id=455427&newsid=6662144&PAG=461&rfi=9

[TheLion]

Arizona: I like this Lady!

Lets see now, the Rats say the following terrible things about requiring voter ID's: "they are an unnecessary obstacle to voting; requiring ID's is legally offensive; they impose an unnecessary burden and people are denied their right to vote". What the Democrats are really saying here is that anything that could possibly prevent them from cheating shouldn't be allowed!/my words.

Lawmaker wants to require ID from voters

By HOWARD FISCHER
Capitol Media Services
01/09/2003

PHOENIX --- A veteran state lawmaker wants Arizonans to have to produce some form of identification before they vote at the next election.
Rep. Linda Gray, R-Glendale, is crafting legislation that would mandate would-be voters first show either a card with a photograph or two other forms of identification with the person's name and address. Gray wants the measure enacted this session.

But the plan is drawing fire from Rep. Linda Lopez, D-Tucson, who said it is an unnecessary obstacle to voting.

Gray said she never gave the issue much thought until she saw some "door hangars,'' literature left by the Arizona Democratic Party. She said one of the things emphasized was that people could vote without showing any form of identification.

"Now what is the point in emphasizing 'go vote and do not show your ID?' " Gray asked. "It sends up a red flag to me of voter fraud.''

Congress last year approved some changes in voting law that require states to get identification when people register to vote the first time. If they register by mail, then their ID would be checked the first time they vote. But, unlike what Gray wants to do, there would be no subsequent checks.

Paul Haggerty, executive director of the Arizona Democratic Party, said the perennial checking is both unnecessary and legally offensive. "We are against having to show ID for the same reason that the Supreme Court is against it: You don't have to have an identification card to be a citizen of this country,'' he said.

Haggerty said the new federal legislation deals with the issue when it is appropriate: when someone first registers to vote. He said even existing state law gave county recorders the power to check someone's residency at the time of registration, which is all that he believes is necessary.

Lopez said Gray's proposal imposes an unnecessary burden.

"We do not want to disenfranchise people, that when folks get to the polls they are denied their right to vote,'' she said.

She acknowledged that voters who drive probably would have no problem meeting the requirement. After all, Lopez said, they would have an Arizona driver's license. More problematic, she said, are those who don't drive, possibly because they are disabled, who have to use dial-a-ride services or other transportation to get to the polls -- and may show up without an acceptable identification. "Then what happens to you?'' she asked.

Gray said her bill will permit various forms of identification to be used. For example, she said, if someone lacks a state-issued ID card with a photo, two other items with someone's name and address, such as utility bills, could qualify

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=57003

[TheLion]

Texas:

In Hidalgo County, requiring accurate voting registrating lists is "scaring people from voting and deterring minorities from voting".....at least according to good Democrats!

Deceased voter rolls divide Hidalgo County Republicans, state

By STEVE TAYLOR
The Brownsville Herald

AUSTIN — The Secretary of State’s office has disputed the accuracy of a survey that found 15,000 dead or unqualified people on Hidalgo County’s voter rolls.

In an internal e-mail dated Dec. 19, Elections Division Program Administrator Karen Richards says that based on the limited information her office has received, the criteria used to identify deceased voters is "unreliable" and that the method used to determine incorrect addresses is "wrong."

A more accurate figure for "deceased records" with an active voter registration on Hidalgo County’s voter list is 1,580, Elections Director Ann McGeehan wrote in a Dec. 20 letter to Hidalgo County Elections Administrator Teresa Navarro.

The computer-assisted study was commissioned by Hidalgo County Republican Party and conducted by Austin-based Voter Views, Inc.

Voter Views General Manager R.L. Edwards denounced the decision to release the correspondence, claiming he had answered every point raised about his survey in a meeting held with elections division staff last month.

"I am furious. I think it is disingenuous of the Secretary of Staff’s office to release to Hidalgo County a private e-mail that was sent to me without including my strong rebuttal," Edwards said.

"It is also unfair to me as a private business owner. I still have not been told why my report has failed the standard for the level of integrity to be considered or even utilized."

Voter Views’ study caused a storm of controversy when selected parts of it were released by Hidalgo County Republican Party Chairman Hollis Rutledge in the run-up to the Nov. 5 general election.

Rutledge said the county’s failure to maintain voter files "dramatically increased the opportunity for voter fraud and mischief in November’s elections."

Democrats countered that the survey was designed to deter minority voters from showing up at the polls.

Throughout the controversy, Navarro kept in regular touch with the Secretary of State’s office. She said the correspondence from Austin "vindicated" the county’s decision to not adopt the Voter View report.

"I knew from the outset that this report was seriously flawed, misleading and totally untrue and the Secretary of State’s investigation vindicates the position I took," Navarro said.

"I felt I needed to pursue this matter because it had received so much publicity. It had tarnished the reputation of the elections division so much that I was not going to just let it go."

In a Dec. 20 letter to Navarro, McGeehan confirms that Edwards and two lawmakers – state Reps. Mary Denny, R-Aubrey, and Betty Brown, R-Terrell – met with Secretary of State officials in December to "review statistical data that Voter Views had tabulated on the number of deceased persons still residing on the official voting list for Hidalgo County."

McGeehan said her office was not able to obtain a list from Voter Views of the "deceased voters," but was told the file exceeded 15,000 voters.

"We note that during the meeting, Voter View gave conflicting information regarding what criteria was used to identify the 15,000 voters flagged as deceased," McGeehan wrote.

McGeehan says the Secretary of State’s office has deceased records dating back to July 21, 1997. Those records indicate that a total of 5,805 deceased persons have been identified and sent to Hidalgo County since 1997. Of those 5,805 deceased records, a total of 1,580 have an accurate voter registration.

Navarro said that out of a total voter roll of approximately 250,000 voters, 1,580 was not a high percentage. "We dealt with the information the day we got it. It’s been remedied," she said.

Hidalgo County Clerk J.D. Salinas said the Secretary of State’s correspondence proved the county was right to ignore a "highly suspect and partisan survey that was designed to scare people from voting."

Salinas said he was "appalled" by a letter Edwards had sent to Navarro on Nov. 26, which mentioned the bad publicity the county had received over its voter rolls on the Rush Limbaugh nationally-syndicated radio show.

In the letter, Edwards said his company could "simplify this issue and very quickly produce positive results, which will diffuse much of the criticism of ineptness."

"We have wasted energy and money on a problem that pretty much did not exist," Salinas said. "Voter Views was looking for $5,000-plus of Hidalgo County taxpayers’ money even though to this day they have still not handed over this report."

Rutledge said he stood by the Voter Views report and his party’s decision to commission it.

"R.L. Edwards has spent around $2 million on software to produce very accurate reports," Rutledge said. "As far as I know the Secretary of State’s office has not allowed him to sit down and explain his methodology."

Rutledge said Republicans were not interested in "pointing fingers" at anybody. "The survey showed 4,223 names that were potentially dead. The issue is all about integrity and we still have a problem."

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/sections/archive/topstoryjmp/1-3-03/NEWS6.htm

[sweetliberty]

"Rat Chat".

I like it! The Rats won't though!

[sweetliberty]

Have you seen "The Two Towers" yet?

....

[sweetliberty]

I think it is also a good idea to follow what the enemy is doing and thinking regarding the election process. It's a frightening vision, but we need to try and get some perspective on where they're coming from. Here is a "for instance" for another segment that we might call "RAT musings".

...

Click on the pic.

[nicmarlo]

"RAT musings"

Oh, that is a great pic!!! And that made me think of something....you read C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters....the head demon to a jr. demon. .... well, the Rat Musings could be the "head rat" to the "jr. rats," having similar conversations about their covert operations and thoughts.......wacha think?

[sweetliberty]

Or how about a a RAT list for every new thread...kinda like an "award" for the rattiest rats in that cycle?

...

[nicmarlo]

Another Good Idea and I love that graphic, too!!!!

[TheLion]

Haven't seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies....are they worth it?

[TheLion]

The Rats would favor a tyranny of the minority, which is what they are trying to force on all of us.

[sweetliberty]

"are they worth it?"

ABSOLUTELY!! I think I can safely say they are the best made movies I have ever seen, and I am a tough critic! Have you ever read the books? How Peter Jackson was able to take such an involved saga and condense it into 3 3-hour movies without losing the essence of the story is nothing short of phenomenal and the attention to detail is meticulous. Magnificent movies. I can't wait for the third one. Get the extended version of Fellowship of the Ring and watch it. In addition to an extra half hour of footage, there are 6 hours of appendices that detail what went into its creation.

[TheLion]

Will have to check the Ring movies out...no pun intended!

[TheLion]

San Francisco:


SF meets election officials over voter registration
24/01/2003 - 7:33:10 pm

Sinn Fein chairman Mitchel McLaughlin has met with the North's chief electoral officer to discuss the removal of 130,000 people from the electoral register in the six counties.

The huge fall in eligible voters came about due to a reform of registration rules designed to tackle voting fraud.

Recent census figures also showed that almost 190,000 eligible voters are not registered.

The electoral office has insisted that it is addressing the problem and has written to schools and colleges to encourage the registration of first-time voters.

It also plans to write to all households who are not on the new register and said anyone who is concerned that their name is not registered to contact their local officials.


http://breaking.examiner.ie/2003/01/24/story85618.html

[TheLion]

Ohio: A good start!

State to take over county voter databases

By FRITZ WENZEL
BLADE POLITICAL WRITER


COLUMBUS - County elections officials in Ohio learned yesterday they will lose control over one of their most guarded possessions - their databases of registered voters - as Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell’s office implements new federal legislation to eliminate fraud from the state’s election system.

Top aides to Mr. Blackwell briefed the elections workers meeting here about provisions of the new national law that requires counties to turn over to state officials their county lists of registered voters.

The 88 county databases will be merged into one, and then cross-checked with the state’s database of licensed drivers and other state-owned computer lists to help identify fraudulent registrations, state elections Director Pat Wolfe said.

"We know that this is something that is very sensitive for you," Dana Walch, the director of election reform, told the county officials. "We understand you are very protective of your lists. But the way we have been doing it, with 88 separate county voter registration lists, is not going to work anymore."

The topic was a key part of the agenda of the Ohio Association of Elections Officials, conducting its winter meeting at the convention center here.

The state is expected to take control of the databases by the year’s end. It will be a public record, available for purchase by telemarketers and other firms, Mr. Walch said. County officials will still be able to edit the voter database, Mr. Walch added, but they will no longer be the lone masters of its content. The provision is part of a federal election reform bill signed into law by President Bush late last year.

The legislation’s intent is to prevent a replay of the 2000 presidential election debacle in Florida, and includes nearly $4 billion in federal funding to help counties pay for new voting machines.

"Here’s one drawback. We just purchased a brand new voter-registration computer system in August of 2001, and the staff is just now getting comfortable using it," said Joe Kidd, Lucas County board of elections director. "Now, it is going to be utterly useless to us. Now we are going to have to retrain everyone on a brand new system again."

Lucas County spent $229,000 for the computer system, and pays $30,000 a year for maintenance and training expenses.

Paula Hicks-Hudson, deputy director of the Lucas County elections board, said she was concerned the state might not be able to manage the database. She pointed to the state’s mismanagement of the child-support system between 1997 and 2000, which caused $38 million to be improperly withheld from needy Ohio families, as an example of what can go wrong with a program run out of Columbus.

Lucas County’s voter database came under fire last year, as thousands of fraudulent voter registrations were submitted to the elections board as part of a petition drive to qualify a constitutional amendment for the statewide ballot. Petition circulators, paid up to $2 for a signature they gathered, submitted the fraudulent registrations in an effort to boost their pay.


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20030124&Category=NEWS24&ArtNo=101240095&Ref=AR

[TheLion]

Louisiana: They should work so hard to keep the long-time dead from voting!

Terminal votes should count

There is a venerable Louisiana tradition of voting the dead, those whose names adorned voting lists long after their demise, but who strangely managed to cast illegal ballots.
The law as it stands requires -- because of Louisiana's seamier electoral traditions -- that absentee votes cast by people who die before election day be disqualified.

However, there's a case for saying that the votes of the dead ought to be counted.

State Sen. Reggie Dupre, D-Montegut, wants to make a small change to allow the counting of ballots from people who cast absentee ballots in good faith and then die before Election Day, when the absentees are counted.

A constituent of Dupre's, a well-known man in the community, did that last fall. His vote was not counted.

The Terrebonne Parish clerk of court, Robert Boudreaux, and the registrar of voters, Linda Rodrigue, reported to Dupre that the late Teddy Duhe cast his ballot absentee, but died two days later. In accordance with state law, local elections officials canceled his vote.

The problem, Boudreaux and Rodrigue wrote to Dupre, is that the only reason elections officials knew Duhe had died was because he was well-known to them.

"Having over 1,000 voters for the absentee period, we feel that had this citizen been an unfamiliar name, we should not have immediately recognized that he had voted, and it is presumable that his vote would have counted," the officials said.

"The system does not identify that an absentee voter has passed away," they wrote. "We assume that, had he not been such an outstanding citizen in our community, his vote likely would have counted."

Dupre says the officials have a point. Today, the innocent dead probably do get their votes counted if local election officials don't know them personally.

Elsie Cangelosi, director of the National Voter Registration Act program for the state Elections Department, said the law is tough to enforce except in rural areas where most people are familiar with each other's names and activities.

Throwing out the votes of people who die between casting absentee ballots and election day is rare, and no one tracks how often it happens, she said.

As few and far between as these cases seem to be, why create any confusion at all by changing state law on such a picayune point?

"What if you have a terminal cancer patient who dies before the election? Why should not the last thing that person does, the last civic duty he does, count?" Dupre asks.

"If you're alive when you vote, your vote ought to count."

We can't help but think that, as rare as these cases are, the change in law will affect few people -- but those cases do seem injustices, however small. True, we doubt that the dead look down from heaven and rue that their last vote didn't count, but a modest change in election law is reasonable, particularly because local elections are sometimes decided by razor-thin margins. Changing the law would prevent cases in which officials would have to search the absentee ballots looking for dead people.

If lawmakers act on Dupre's suggestion, the bill ought to be very narrowly drawn to ensure that it does not interfere with laws needed to prevent widespread election fraud.


http://www.theadvocate.com/stories/012403/opi_edi1001.shtml

[TheLion]

Minnesota: A sure clue to fax vote fraud...the same phone number was used to send them! Dems will think of anything to come up with new ways to scam the system!



Posted on Sun, Jan. 12, 2003

MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE: Changes likely in absentee balloting
BY HANK SHAW
Pioneer Press

Lawmakers loath to repeat last fall's balloting brouhaha following the death of U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone are likely to change the way Minnesotans cast absentee ballots.

Sen. John Marty filed the first proposal last week, a sweeping series of changes that include a controversial provision to let certain voters cast a ballot through a fax machine.

Wellstone's death 11 days before the election invalidated tens of thousands of absentee votes cast for him. After former Vice President Walter Mondale replaced Wellstone on the ballot, many absentee voters struggled with local election officials to quickly obtain and return a new form.

Some voters postponed vacations to cast a ballot in person. Some drove hundreds of miles from college campuses or job sites. Others paid upwards of $30 for express mail services to ensure their vote would count.

Secretary of State Mary Kiffmeyer and the state Supreme Court cobbled together a set of fixes allowing voters to change their ballots. Marty's legislation would set many of those measures into law.

But the proposal — some of which Marty, a Roseville DFLer, has previously introduced but failed to pass — goes far beyond the Supreme Court ruling, and some parts may again face a bumpy road. Chief among them is the vote-by-fax provision.

Only Alaska allows voters to fax ballots if they are present in the state, although Missouri, Montana, Indiana and Hawaii let registered voters who are overseas vote by fax. Many other states allow fax voting for overseas employees of the federal government, such as soldiers, sailors and embassy personnel.

Republicans say fax voting leaves too much room for fraud.

"While I never suspect widespread voter fraud in Minnesota, it's not beyond reason to think that in close races there could be the temptation," said Tony Trimble, chief counsel to the state GOP.

A faxed ballot presents any number of problems: Its secrecy is compromised, and it could come through unreadable or, worse, slightly smeared. Local election officials would then decide whether to count the ballot. Marty's bill sets no rules for those election officials to follow.

Trimble also is disturbed by a provision removing the requirement for absentee voters to prove their residency, and one that lets a voter receive an absentee ballot every election without re-applying.

Marty said that provision is intended to help workers such as truck drivers and railroad employees, who are out of state much of the year.

"That's very nice of him to do," Trimble said, "But what about people who are deceased or who have moved?"

Trimble and Marty do agree on several changes to the law, however, and whether or not Marty's bill survives, some changes are likely.

They include:

• Allowing soldiers, sailors and other Minnesotans stationed overseas to vote by fax.

• Requiring local election officials to express mail absentee ballots to registered voters who request them. The voter pays for the service in advance, a prospect that leaves Kiffmeyer uneasy. She says well-to-do voters could afford such a service, but those with less money might not have the same opportunity to cast a ballot.

• Widening the eligibility for absentee balloting. Voters must now cite one of four broad reasons, which include "absence from precinct" on Election Day. It is unclear whether lawmakers will ultimately require voters to state a reason for voting absentee or not.

• Requiring election officials to supply a replacement absentee ballot to anyone who needs one if the ballot changes in any way, like what happened in the Wellstone case.

No hearing has been set for Marty's proposal.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/4927114.htm

[sweetliberty]

A democRAT is behind this action? I am shocked.