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Toxic Intruder: Black Mold Panic Has Families Fleeing Their Homes
ABCNEWS.com ^ | 11/29/02

Posted on 11/29/2002 1:20:38 PM PST by Jean S

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To: finnman69
Re: 177

A friend of mine says, "Even the stupidest of the three little pigs didn't built his house out of paper!"
181 posted on 11/29/2002 10:10:14 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
A recent seminar I attended showed that (in very round figures) a 1900 era home could store about 500 gallons of water within its building envelope before reaching a point at which mold growth would begin. A 1960 era home with wood studs can store about 50 gallons.

A modern, tight, steel-frame home can store about 5 gallons before reaching the same point.

Given the inevitability of leaks at some point, which home do you think is more likely to develop a mold problem?

It doesn't seem to make any difference as far as I can see; what counts is the excess moisture.

The less moisture a substance can absorb, the faster it will dry; what counts is finding infiltrated moisture and abating it before the insidious mold occurs (grows).

182 posted on 11/29/2002 10:11:55 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Old Professer
Take it from me, moisture storage capacity makes a difference, in a real building if not in a lab.

The books and websites I've mentioned above can do a better job of explaining why than I can in this somewhat constricted format.
183 posted on 11/29/2002 10:14:34 PM PST by Restorer
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To: finnman69
I have a brick house; actually it is brick veneer. Does the brick's ability to act as a heat-sink help or hinder the growth of mold in hidden wall spaces absent insukation in the wall cavity?
184 posted on 11/29/2002 10:24:26 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Old Professer
Depends on a great many other factors.

What are the materials in the wall behind the veneer?

Was it installed so that it can drain properly?

What is your climate zone?

Lots of others.
185 posted on 11/29/2002 10:35:54 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
You lost me man...

First you say that a 1900 era home holds the most moisture. Then you say a metal home holds 5% moisture. You say it is unfortunate that metal does not hold moisture. I thought the crux of the conversation was the reason there is mold is because of moisture??%&$#!

SR

186 posted on 11/30/2002 3:08:42 AM PST by sit-rep
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To: Restorer
On a second thought, let me aks you this...

If you have a radius, say 24", that must be boarded, how do you do it? Soak several layers of 1/4" for a few days in water then slap it up? How do you get rid of the moisture before mold growth occurs?

SR

187 posted on 11/30/2002 3:16:41 AM PST by sit-rep
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
Was this black mold?

It sounds like it.

188 posted on 11/30/2002 3:44:05 AM PST by snopercod
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To: boomop1
(I'm in WNC, neighbor.) The housewrap isn't really the problem, it's just poor HVAC system design. Actually, I should say "lack of HVAC system design".

Get yourself a hygrometer ($30), and monitor the relative humidity in your home. Keep it between 40 and 60% if you can.

Until recently, I was working as an electrician on million dollar homes up in the Highlands/Cashiers area. The contractors installed the crappiest, cheapest systems in those homes that I had ever seen. The rich saps paying for those fancy lake homes will be uncomfortable forever in them.

I saw one unit that was installed in an almost-inaccessible attic space above a bedroom. There was just no way that anybody was ever going to get up there and clean the coils or change the filter.

189 posted on 11/30/2002 4:05:58 AM PST by snopercod
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To: Restorer
My dad tried to build and sell well-built homes and couldn't compete with the guys who could slam them up and sell for 5% less.

That's been my experience, too. That's why I now build only my own houses for my own self.

190 posted on 11/30/2002 4:13:39 AM PST by snopercod
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To: Leisler
Furthermore skilled tradesmen are a dying breed. You used to have guys who understood the interactions of each other trade.

True, but there is another subtle motive behind the cluster f**k scenario. The guy I used to work for (as an electrician) purposely sent out his most incompetent crew to rough in a house. It would take them literally weeks to complete, and it was done wrong.

Six months later, when the trim-out crew came back and tried to make things work, they would have to pull new home runs (a real problem in a log house), and rewire half the house.

The boss got paid extra to fix the problems that he himself had created.

When did my first rough-in for this bozo, I took photographs of the whole inststallation before the wall-covering went on. The boss wouldn't pay me to get the film developed, because he wanted the trim-out crew to spend as much time as possible figuring out what the rough-in crew had done.

My rough-ins always worked perfectly the first time. They worked so well that the boss fired me. He couldn't charge the customers extra because there was nothing to fix on the houses I wired.

191 posted on 11/30/2002 4:25:40 AM PST by snopercod
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To: Jesse
I now know a lot more about houses. But if people you hire to find out if there are problems don't figure it out, then what do you do?

It's a real problem. It takes years of being around home and lots of reading to develop an understanding of some of the problems. It's better to find people that already know this stuff and pay them to do the job right - but such people are becoming very rare these days.

Even conctractors who do know how to do a sound job find that there is no market for it, and end up doing it "quick and dirty".

Home inspectors walk a fine line. Even if they do know that they are looking at what could be a serious problem, they don't always mention it. They have to be political, too. And neither do they have X-ray vision.

I have nothing but contempt for Architects. They learn how to make "pretty" houses, but know absolutely nothing about the systems inside, or construction methods. They don't leave room in their cutsey structures for heating ducts, electrical equipment, or access to the HVAC system. All that stuff is just an afterthought to them.

The low flow in your kitchen could be due to one of the new "AlGore" faucets, which have flow restrictors in them. I accidentally bought one of those, and I can read a chapter in a book while waiting for a spagetti pot to fill up.

192 posted on 11/30/2002 4:48:28 AM PST by snopercod
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To: finnman69
LOL
193 posted on 11/30/2002 4:53:20 AM PST by boomop1
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To: finnman69
Here is what he have here, homes that are summer residents, the constant dehumidifying is mot being used. so the result is evident I've seen it, wait for further developments then we shall see who knows what they are talking about
194 posted on 11/30/2002 4:59:00 AM PST by boomop1
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
She does not have this condition any more, but she left home at 17 and moved far away from the "Smell". I tell you, the smell was awfull.

Sounds like the lack of a monthly bath.

195 posted on 11/30/2002 5:05:38 AM PST by Hacksaw
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To: Eva
You are absolutely right, we just moved one house off foundation the builder bought it back it will be gutted and renovated and another house will be built where that one was, it is on a NC Coastal Water Way, now the other house is by the road, but closer to the ocean.
196 posted on 11/30/2002 5:05:39 AM PST by boomop1
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To: Dianna
As per my dear non-FReeper husband.... Did he pass? I'll give him a B- ;-)

The sensible/total ratio is a measure of how much humidity the unit will remove during the cooling season. It's a really important number in humid climates like we have here in the South. You want the ratio to be less than 75%, which means that at least 25% of the of the cooling power of the unit is going toward removing moisture. The new variable speed air handlers tend to have better numbers.

The air changes per hour ACH is a room-by-room calculation. First, you calculate the volume of the room. Then you figure how much air you need to pump into that room to entirely change out that much volume several times per hour. It's the starting point for duct sizing to each room, and when you have done this for all spaces in the house, then you know how much air flow you need from your air-handler.

You want about 3-5 ACH for most rooms, and about 10 for kitchens and bathrooms. But of course you have to calculate how much heat you need to add/remove from each room as well.

197 posted on 11/30/2002 5:18:27 AM PST by snopercod
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To: meyer
You get an "A" :-)
198 posted on 11/30/2002 5:20:15 AM PST by snopercod
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To: boomop1
government regulation mandating insulation requirements.

My bet is that it is the air infiltration requirements on windows coupled with the use of vapor that is causing the moisture buildup. It's like living in a big white trash bag. Rx from Dr. Nitti: expensive fresh air exchangers or in warmer climes open the windows and turn off the AC.

199 posted on 11/30/2002 5:27:34 AM PST by ninonitti
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To: Restorer
Not entirely sure that's true, if you figure in all corporations, of all sizes.

But your point is well taken.

Yes, its all about perceptions. Whenever the media and trial lawyers get together, I get nervous. They nearly destroyed the nuclear power industry, mostly through fear-mongering. They really know how to whip up public opinion (look at the global-warming and Kyoto fiascos, not to mention NBC blowing up Chevy trucks) with scant scientific evidence. The best way to pretrain a jury is to saturate the news with a "problem" prior to any trials.

My goal here is to temper the argument - to make sure that freepers know that while the mold issue is a real problem, it isn't nearly as widespread as the media in some areas make it out to be. (Strangely, the media here has never jumped on the mold bandwagon - the only mold mentioned here is the jello-mold in the food section).

200 posted on 11/30/2002 5:37:55 AM PST by meyer
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