[SCDogPapa]

The flag of slavery???

I'll make this post and y'all figure out which flag. The Battle Flag has caught a lot of Hell that is not deserved.

Slavery was a legal institution in this country for over 200 years. Africans were brought here by northern slave traders to be used in northern industry, long before the antebellum South or the Confederacy ever existed. The first American colony to legalize slavery was Massachusetts in 1641, only 17 years after the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. "The slave trade became very profitable to the shipping colonies and Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New Hampshire had many ships in the triangular trade,"

(72). "The moral argument against slavery arose early in the New England shipping colonies but it could not withstand the profits of the trade and soon died out."

(73). Thomas Jefferson condemned the slave trade in the original draft of the Declaration of Independence, but the New England slave traders lobbied to have the clause stricken. In a short eleven year period form 1755 to 1766, no fewer than 23,000 slaves landed in Massachusetts. By 1787, Rhode Island had taken first place in the slave trade to be unseated later by New York. Before long, millions of slaves would be brought to America by way of 'northern' slave ships. After all, there were no Southern slave ships involved in the triangular slave, it was simply too cruel.

William P. Cheshire, the senior editorial columnist for the Arizona Republic recently noted, the New England Yankee who brought slaves to America, "were interested in getting money, not in helping their cargo make a fresh start in the New World." He adds that northern slave ownership "isn't widely known - American textbooks tend to be printed in Boston, not Atlanta - but early New Englanders not only sold blacks to Southern planters but also kept slaves for themselves as well as enslaving the local Indian population,"

(74). Slavery did not appear in the deep South until northern settlers began to migrate South, bringing with them their slaves. It was soon discovered that while slaves were not suited to the harsh climate and working conditions of the north, they were ideal sources of cheap labor for the newly flourishing economy of the agricultural South. Of the 9.5 million slaves brought to the Western Hemisphere from 1500 - 1870, less than 6% were brought to the United States. This means that our Hispanic, British and French neighbors to the south owned over 94% of the slaves brought to the New World. In the South, less than 7% of the total population ever owned a slave. In other words, over 93% of Southerners did not own any slaves,

(75). Attempts to outlaw the slave trade in the north only increased the profits of smuggling. In 1858, only two years prior to the birth of the Confederacy, Stephen Douglas noted that over 15,000 slaves had been smuggled into New York alone, with over 85 vessels sailing from New York in 1859 to smuggle even more slaves. Perhaps it was their own guilt that drove the abolitionists of the day to point an accusing finger at the South, while closing their eyes to the slavery and the slave trade taking place in their own back yards.

For more than 200 years, northern slave traders mad enormous profits that furnished the capitol for future investments into mainstream industries. Who is more responsible for slavery in America, the Southern plantation owner who fed and clothed his slaves, or the New England "Yankee" slave trader who brought the slaves here in the first place?

From 1641, when Massachusetts first legalized slavery, until 1865, when the Confederate struggle for independence ended, slavery was a legal institution in America that lasted over 224 years. The Confederate battle flag flew for 4 of those 224 years, but the U.S. flag and its colonial predecessors flew over legalized slavery for ALL of those 224 years. It was the U.S. flag that the slave first saw, and it was the U.S. flag that flew on the mast of New England slaves ships as they brought their human cargo to this country. It is clear, that those who attack the Confederate flag as a reminder of slavery are overlooking the most guilty and hateful of all reminders of American slavery, the U.S. flag.

Bibliography: 72. The Concise Dictionary of American History, (Scribner & Sons), p.876 73. Ibid 74. The Arizona Repblic, June 11, 1995 75. Rober William Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman, Time on the Cross - The Economics of American Negro Slavery (New York: Norton, 1974), p.14 http://www.hpa.org/inforec/arg3.html

[jlogajan]

It is clear, that those who attack the Confederate flag as a reminder of slavery are overlooking the most guilty and hateful of all reminders of American slavery, the U.S. flag.

The Confederacy fell and therefore the meaning of its flag is frozen in time. The flaws of the US, however, have largely been self-correcting. The meaning of the US and therefore its flag have evolved. It just wasn't to be that the Confederate slaveholding flag would have a chance to redeem itself. But it didn't. Live with it.

[Pitchfork]

Are you suggesting we abandon the Stars and Stripes? Or rather, that since both flags are tainted by slavery there is no point in discriminating? Either way you're making a case for a new US flag which is nonsense.

I've read a ton of that 'the Confederate Battle flag didn't stand for slavery' stuff, I've also read well researched historical work indicating that slavery was a peripheral issue to the war and that Lincoln latched onto the idea to prevent the British from aiding the south (which would have turned the tide of the war and led to a permanently divided United States--this by the way is an incredible counterfactual to think about: What would have happened in Europe in WWI or II? Would only the North or South have entered the war? Could the Germans have won? If not would the USSR have been the sole super power? Scary.)

In any case, the Klan's extensive use of the flag turned it into a symbol of racisim and hatred as objectionable as the swastika. I'm tired of southern conservatives being synonymous with racist rednecks and its time we put the Stars and Bars debate to rest. Let's recognize that a huge portion of the population find it offensive and move on. The Republican party may NEVER attract black or hispanic voters if we coddle the fringe racist elements of the right wing.

[Frankster]

Excellent post! DEO VINDICE.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Slavery was a legal institution in this country for over 200 years.

Obviously false.

US founded 1776-- 13th amendment passed 1865. Do the math.

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

Slavery did not appear in the deep South until northern settlers began to migrate South, bringing with them their slaves

Slavery started in Virginia. Were those the 'northern settlers' you're talking about?

[Non-Sequitur]

In 1858, only two years prior to the birth of the Confederacy, Stephen Douglas noted that over 15,000 slaves had been smuggled into New York alone, with over 85 vessels sailing from New York in 1859 to smuggle even more slaves.

Let me see if I get this straight. Over 15,000 slaves were smuggled into New York. Importing slaves was illegal to begin with. So why not compound the risk by smuggling them into a port where it was illegal to own them rather than into a southern port where the demand was. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

[WhiskeyPapa]

Thomas Jefferson condemned the slave trade in the original draft of the Declaration of Independence, but the New England slave traders lobbied to have the clause stricken.

South Carolina and Georgia opposed this clause, not the New England states.

Walt