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To: Luis Gonzalez
Au contraire. I never said that America as a nation was an abomination, which is your claim. I did say, and say again, that representative government in any form or historical manifestation is at its root anti-Christian, humanistic, and based upon the Luciferic ideal of man as his own master. In other words, I reject the Enlightenment philosophy of Humanism that gave birth to the poltical idea of popular government, not any specific popular govermnment extant today

You are saying that the Founders rejected God, and set up a Luciferic, anti-Christian nation, a Nation of sinners, without a real religion.

I am saying no such thing. I am saying that the Founders were men steeped in the ideals of the so-called Enlightenment, which has as its premise the rejection of a sovereign personal God that rules the universe -- a Luciferic and anti-Christian philosophy. The Constitution of the United States itself (and the federal government it establishes) is no more evil than that of any other post-Enlightenment political entity.

What is a patriot? A patriot is a person loyal to the government and people of his native land. He cheerfully obeys his nation's laws, respects its culture, fulfills his civic obligations (paying taxes, etc.) and is willing to fight and if necessary die in its defense.

As a law-abiding citizen, taxpayer, and and military veteran, I believe I meet those criteria.

I disagree that representative governnment is a Christian form of government, but the government we have in the United States is, for better or worse, my government, and I swore an oath to defend it. Since all authority on Earth is instituted (or allowed to exist) by God, as a Christian I am obligated to support and honor whatever form of authority exists in my country, whether I agree with its principles or not.

President Jordan Lyman: So you, ah, you stand by the Constitution, Jake?

Colonel Martin "Jiggs" Casey: I never thought of it just like that, Mr. President, but, well, that's what we got and I guess it's worked pretty well so far. I sure don't want to be the one to say we ought to change it.

President Jordan Lyman: Neither do I.

-- Seven Days In May, script by Rod Serling, 1964

Ultimately, any form of government not specifically based upon the Christian faith is anti-Christian: "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters." [ St. Matt. 12:30 RSV]. But a Christian may not be a revolutionary; Christianity is against every rebellion or revolution that ever existed. Rebellion was the Original Sin; my role as a believer in Christianity is to fight rebellion and revolution, not support them. I am therefore content to count myself as a patriotic American and an enemy of those who would rebel against or attempt to overthrow our government.
234 posted on 11/29/2002 1:02:31 AM PST by B-Chan
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To: B-Chan

254 posted on 11/29/2002 6:52:31 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: B-Chan
"Au contraire. I never said that America as a nation was an abomination..."

Yes, and Bill Clinton never had sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski.

America was founded by rejecting the notion of the Divine Rights of Kings, which you claim is the will of God, and on the idea that man has a divine right to self-govern. Your ideology not only portrays the Founders as having turned their backs on the will of God, but because of the very notion of self-government generated with the founding of this nation, the subsequent world-wide anti-monarchic movement (by your definition anti-Christian and Luciferic), was in fact begun with the birth of this Nation.

The United States of America, if one follows your thoughts to their logical conclusion, caused Christians to embrace beliefs which you yourself associate with Lucifer, an abomination.

In turn, you now also claim that a good Christian's duty is to "cheerfully obey(s) his nation's laws (un-Christian and Luciferic Laws), respects its culture (a culture built upon a lie straight from the Serpent's mouth), fulfills his civic obligations (paying taxes, etc.) (bow to un-Christian, Luciferic rituals, set in place by people defying the Word of God) and is willing to fight and if necessary die in its defense (defend Satan and his right to rule mankind)".

One last thing before you skulk away, if America is not a Christian nation (your own words), then how could this struggle against Islamic terrorists be a Christianity vs. Islam thing?

270 posted on 11/29/2002 8:35:46 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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