FREE REPUBLIC'S PRAGMATISM: HOPE AND CONSERVATISM DON'T MIX

Ether Zone ^ | 11/26/02 | Paul Fallavollita

[ihatemyalarmclock]

The author of this piece sounds like a fatalist -- in which case NO group, no matter what its size, has any effect on the GOP unless they are somehow pulling the strings. That's a pretty negative worldview. It says more about the author than it does about Free Republic.

I've visited EtherZone on a number of occasions. It truly is where the fatalists gather to sing all four verses of "Hell In A Handbasket."

This is not to say that I haven't read some fascinating articles there. But it is to say that no changes in the political, social or economic arenas -- no matter how positive -- would reduce their overall dissatisfaction with humanity, even a little.

[perfect stranger]

"People care about the economy, but want to be alive to enjoy it."

[gcruse]

 The Clintonites seemed to think that Free Republic was important
enough to order two of the largest newspapers in the country to sue Free Republic

Wow.  Drinking the Kool-Aid is one thing,
but mainlining it can't be good for your mental health.

[gcruse]

. I know of several messurable changes in
Administration policy (past and present) that have
resulted by the issue being FReeped.

Please tell us what those issues are and how you
know FReeping them was the cause of
the change.  Thanks.

[u-89]

Actually I wasn't impying anything about this site (but as the saying goes "if the shoe fits, kick yourself with it") my comment was more general. I used to call myself conservative but switched to libertarian simply because the definition of conservative has become so confused that it always meant something different to whomever I discussed politics and I do not mean just the two previous distinctions of economic conservative and social conservative. Also I started finding myself at odds with so called conservatives on too many important issues to continue with the label.

So the question stands - What does it mean to be a conservative? Does it mean one wants a reduction in government influence in our lives? After reading some threads on this site it is apparent some like more government yet consider themselves very conservative. FR should take a poll on what conservatism means. The results would be facinating. Personally I think the term should be scrapped as it has become so bastardized it is beyond redemption. The evolution of the term liberal is a good example of a label being co-opted to the point it nows means something 180 degrees opposite of where it started.

[KLT]

Thar, she Blows!

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Stalinesque reputation for sanitizing their members’ commentary?

I dislike heavy-handed moderators as much as the next guy, but I had to stop reading at this comparison.

[PsyOp]

That's what too much ether does to a brain.

[PsyOp]

That's what too much ether does to a brain.

[conservativemusician]

Could you elaborate on the culture which you wish to preserve/conserve. I'm not sure what you mean.


I think post#55 is more blunt opinion than debate, but I see your point.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Stalinesque reputation for sanitizing their members’ commentary?

LOL! I want to join a firing squad! Yes! Yes! When I disagree with a fellow FReeper, "Bang!" /sarcasm.

Stalinesque? Ah! We can ship them to gulags! Let's start with the poster who started this thread. He must learn what Stalinesque is all about! /sarcasm ...seriously this time....

Where's that super freeper hacker? We can trace his home address and bring some duct tape.... [just KIDDING! Just in case Dasshole is reading, I don't know of any super-freeper hacker. Seriously. Nor do we have a freeper-gulag, I cross my heart, Mr. Senator.]

[poet]

"increasingly motivated to vote for candidates that are the most rational and honest"

They are inclined to vote for only what a dishonest politician will give them or their region from the public trough and in the process accept the politicians enriching themselves from the same trough. Why do you think Bush is going to grant citizenship to 3,000,000 illegals? That, to me, is obscene! Rewarding lawbreakers with citizenship! He has former Admiral Poindexter setting up a data base to spy on all of us. If you rememember, Poindexter was convicted of five felonies which were thrown out on a "legal" technacality. What the hell is this guy doing in the government and spying on us?

I remind everyone that the obscene p.a.t.r.i.o.t. law was not needed because existing law would have achieved the same end by simply adding the words "domestic terrorism".

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is not a law in existance or any new laws that will protect anyone against an attack or stopped one crime!:

Not one murder has been stopped by laws against murder, not one rape has been stopped by laws against rape, not one shooting has been stopped because of gun laws ans so on and so on. The perps violated laws on the books in this order:

They hi-jacked the planes, they took hostages, they murdered people, they destroyed property all of which are against the law and that didn't stop them, so, why do Americans think more laws will stop any criminal intent on breaking the law?

Section 802 of the phony p.a.t.r.i.o.t. act gives a broad definition of terrorism in sections 5B (i) & (ii)
Pay particular attention to 5B relative to "intended"

(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) Appear To Be Intended:
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

I'm not an attorney, but, it sure looks like free speech and the right to assemble is a terrorist act if some appointed commissar determines that a demonstration against a governement policy has a "bad intent", the same applies if someone "speaks" against a government policy.

Keep in mind, section 802 has no expiration date as does the rest of the act. Rather curious. Is it possible this will be the legal justification of the coming new world order to stifle dissent? nyah! Our government wouldn't do that to us, now, would they?

Well, I see a more devious reason for the p.a.t.r.i.o.t law. Section 802 is designed to curb dissent in the future when the New World Order comes to fruition. That is the only reason I can see for not having an expiration date for this section of the law. Here are just two clauses of the law

Now I do realize that A,B & C are conjunctive, the fact remains, someone has to determine the "intent" of the demonstrators and/or the people speaking against a gov't policy.

I know this is a long winded reply to your comment, but, I see the death of freedom and liberty in America in the name of a false "security".

For all those people who are willing to trade their freedom and liberty for a false "security" I wrote the following for them:

In the Name Of Security

The p.a.t.r.i.o.t act sticks in my craw
because it’s really a Gestapo Law,
the FBI gets more powers,
to spy on us 24 hours

In the name of security

Let’s not forget history,
of what happened in Germany,
the majority went along,
gathered in public throngs,
embracing all the wrongs

In the name of security

Cameras here, cameras there,
cameras everywhere.
on the corners, in the mall,
as our freedoms fall,
attached to traffic lights,
losing our privacy rights

In the name of security

Soon we’ll get ID cards,
as they build more prison yards,
they want us to watch the other guy,
an entire nation to spy

In the name of security

Giving power to strangers,
to people we don’t know,
presents future dangers,
as their power continues to grow

In the name of security

Ben Franklin said it best,
want to be like all the rest?
trade liberty for security,
only those in power will be free

In the name of security

Justification has begun,
we must keep terrorists on the run,
in the name of security,
you must give up your privacy

Give it up for security,
just don’t include me,
you want safety,
I'd rather be free

Copyright © 2002 By John J. Lindsay. All Rights Reserved
June 1, 2002

[Zon]

My thinking isn't as narrow or bounded. Going back to my original post which you responded to:

The edge is Republicans in general and their platform in general are less deceptive and less irrational than Democrats.

The general public is moving away from politics and especially irrational and deceptive politics.

The tide is turning; the pendulum is swinging the other direction. Reality asserts as sure as honesty outlives the lie. It always has and always will. In politics, democrats are but the first party in the pendulum's path to be defeated in their irrationality and dishonesty.

The below has been posted on several threads:

Battle of Two Worlds
Value Creators versus Value Destroyers

The first thing civilization must have is business, science and art. It's what the individual and family needs so that its members can live creative, prosperous, happy lives. Business, science and art can survive, even thrive without government and its bureaucracy.

Government and its bureaucracy cannot survive without business and science. In general, business, science and the individual and family is the host and government and bureaucracy are parasites.

Keep valid government services that protect individual rights and private property rights while upholding the sanctity of private contracts -- military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a relatively free market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to people and society -- there are but a few -- could much more effectively serve people and society by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

Wake up! They're parasites. We're their host. We don't need them. They need us.

You're the host. You don't need them -- they need you.

It's your life. Make them meet your terms and become a value creator or let them chose to perish.

[poet]

"The edge is Republicans in general and their platform in general are less deceptive and less irrational than Democrats."

Respectfully, less deceptive is still deceptive. Unacceptable. It's the same as saying your devil is better than my devil, they're still devils.

I judge people by their actions, not their words. Words are used to influence or incite, Actions tell us where someone is really coming from.

FReegards

[an amused spectator]

Wow. Drinking the Kool-Aid is one thing, but mainlining it can't be good for your mental health.

You don't know sh*t, newbie. Clearly we can see that you have little knowledge of the actual events surrounding the LAT/WP action.

Why don't you explain to us why the two papers secured a decision, then refused to use it on another site that was far Left/anti-Bush, and caught dead-to-rights AFTER their pet judge ruled in their favor?

I've seen you around here over the past few years, and frankly I've not been very impressed with your posts. I could go and dig up some of your old stuff to see exactly why that is, but I doubt that you're worth the bother. ;-)

[Zon]

Respectfully, less deceptive is still deceptive. Unacceptable. It's the same as saying your devil is better than my devil, they're still devils.

Of course. That's why I gave bold red attention to it. Also written in my original post to which you responded:

In mid-term and presidential elections tens-of-millions of people vote for the lesser of evils despite that it still begets evil. How can so many people thinking they're right be so wrong?

IMO the general public is getting better as the November 5 election showed. Respectfully, are you caught up with the first post yet? ;^)

[driftless]

For one thing I never thought that the comments I make on this forum would directly influence anyone much less pols in power. I do know however that the free exchange of ideas and the amount of excellent information prevalent on this forum enlightens many previously ignorant types and allows other to make informed decisons about who they vote for. Pols would like to ignore freepers and other muckrakers, but they can't. Because ignored voters are still voters. If I thought that the Republicans in power were following a wrong course, I guarantee you I will vote for another party.

[an amused spectator]

For one thing I never thought that the comments I make on this forum would directly influence anyone much less pols in power.

You should have been here for the Monica thing. We really shook the Pillars of Heaven that time. The Clintonites were freaking out, and it took them quite a while to craft a plan to shut this place down.

[KLT]

Thanks wayoverontheright, your theory seems very accurate...I agree with you..100%

BTW...A Happy ThanksGiving to You and Your's...

[sultan88]

"What a mixed bag of garbage...used to be more Conservative I think..."

For some reason, at one time I had bookmarked Etherzone.com in my list of conservative sites. Haven't looked at it lately, but I agree. It's now become a "mixed bag".