Posted on 11/22/2002 10:47:08 PM PST by JohnHuang2
Edited on 07/12/2004 3:59:08 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Is that a real question? I never know when someone is trying to be sarcastic or real.
I will treat it as real - so yes. Who do you think contributes greatly to his and other politicians campaign. Do you think all those millions of dollars come from average American working people?
When political contributors give massive amounts of money - they expect something in return and they are getting it.
The argument isn't for or against minimum wage. It's about paying the prevailing wage or bringing in cheap illegal labor to drive that prevailing wage down to what the greedy want to pay.
We did that with the last amnesty and it just moved illegals to the legal slot and made room for more illegals.
There are many ways this could be accomplished, using the laws we have now. We just have to have someone in charge who truly cares that America remain America.
You know the one thing I don't understand when someone suggests amnesty, documentation, registration, taxes, permission, etc. We have laws now that will seriously help and no one is using them. What makes anyone think more laws will ever be enforced. They won't. But how does leaving them here help this country? It doesn't. It helps a few who are making money off them - but the average American and the nations is being harmed - whether they are here legally or illegally.
That's a fair question. The issue of families would have to be addressed. The only reasonable thing to do is to require that families remain in Mexico.
The even stickier problem is what to do with Mexican women who get pregnant in America. Any child born here is a US citizen, and it would take a constitutional amendment to change that. We could require that any pregnant woman leave, although strict enforcement would be difficult.
I am an American.
I am not an immigrant.
Therefore this country is not a country of immigrants.
Ninety percent of the residents of the United States were born here.
How could that preponderance of home-grown Americans justify us being called a "nation of immigrants"?
Certainly we are descendants of immigrants (as is everyone in the world), but that is not the same thing as being an immigrant.
The inference that "We are a nation of immigrants and, therefore, we must not limit immigration" is a classic example of CIRCULAR ARGUMENT.
What it says is this: Because we are a nation of immigrants, we have to allow for massive immigration which, in turn, makes us a nation of immigrants. Hence its circularity.
Circular arguments are invalid in the logical sense by virtue of HOW they are structured and not WHAT do they mean. They lead to a faulty (and, therefore, useless) reasoning in which the thesis (the very thing which is to be proved) is used as a premise in its proof.
And circular arguments certainly do not form a good basis on which to formulate sound public policy.
(Shamelessly lifted from ProjectUSA)
Bingo!
Illegal aliens collect handouts under one phoney SS# and sometimes more than one.
They work for cash under the table.
They work for regular pay under another SS#.
They receive all income taxes paid in back by claiming 10 dependents still in Mexico and use this countries emergency rooms as their primary care physicians.
The American Taxpayer gets to educate all of their illegal children at an average $6,000 per year, per head.
Illegal aliens are driving our economy into the ground. Just look at how our National Debt has grown while this illegal invasion has been taking place.
That's true, and I would be very opposed to repeating that mistake.
What we don't have is a system in place which makes it difficult to hire illegal aliens. We have some laws against it, but no enforcement. Nor is it terribly realistic or reasonable to expect employers to be the ones who enforce immigration laws.
My solution is not at all popular among conservatives, and it's one that I opposed until a few months ago. I think we need a citizenship ID card, issued by either the Feds or the States (I'm indifferent because it won't make much practical difference) for all Americans. Registered Mexicans on a work visa get a different card. Make it high-tech and nearly impossible to forge.
No card, no job, and no ballot to cast in our elections. Make it a felony to hire someone without such a card. Illegal aliens wouldn't cross the border anymore because there would be no jobs for them, and only a deportation trip when they were discovered.
You bet. With the taxpayers subsidizing the workers, the employer can reap even greater rewards.
[ The construction business would stop entirely without it, along with much of the agricultural, and even the service industry.]
Absolutely false. Just false. Someone was doing those job before they came. Just a smokescreen.
[They aren't depressing wages because they're not competing for jobs that you want. Or are they? Name the jobs that illegals have that you want.]
Personally none for me - I am an old lady. Well mechanics - you may think that kind of work is beneath you, but many good and honorable Americans have been raising families doing that work for many years. Teacher's aides - good job for young American mother to supplement family income. Bank teller - do I need to expound. Heavy machine operator - once again many Americans did this job and provided for their families. Construction worker - it is just a fallacy there is no one to do the job. Someone was doing that job when they came. Dry wall, framing, etc., once provided a good living for Americans - not there any more (at least not for Americans). Some of these people coming here are very will educated, and since the employer is ont confronted with pesky little things like taxes, workman's comp, or any other benefits - they will get the jobs Americans need. these people are in every facet of employment - don't kid yourself.
[What we need to do is allow them to work in those jobs as legal visitors to the US and to pay taxes that cover the social costs of their visit.]
Now believe me if they were made to pay taxes to cover the costs of their visits - they wouldn't come. They couldn't afford to come and work. If the employer had to do the same for the illegal worker as he does Amrerican worker - they would not be so attractive. For the last reason, there is no way these employers are going to let something like that get passed, if they can help it.
[Mexican labor not only helps our economy, it's essential. But it's way past time that we regulate it instead ignoring it.]
Another fallacy. It helps big business and I will agree there may be some room for some kind of temporary, limited employment for people to come, without families to work for a specified period of time - not years, either. But I just think we would find the need is just not there - it is just propaganda.
I've been told by a tax preparer that Mexicans and Canadians are claiming dependents that remain behind in their respective countries on their tax returns, now.
The liberal interpretation of the 14th Amendment is the problem, not the Amendment itself. It's on its way to being challenged in the Supreme Court.
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