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To: Alamo-Girl
If you run into any articles that discuss the process of determination (conditionals, symbols) at the genetic level - or the algorithmic information which leads to the production of the smnRNA molecule --- I would very greatly appreciate a heads up!

This PDF looks like what you're talking about...

1,245 posted on 12/10/2002 7:05:54 PM PST by forsnax5
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To: forsnax5
Thank you oh so very much! That was a very informative article!!!

Now I'm off to find more research on maxicircles (stored genetic information) and minicircles (contextual editors!)

1,246 posted on 12/10/2002 7:56:21 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: forsnax5; Nebullis; gore3000; Junior
I must thank you yet again. By following those two key words and your author, I was able to locate exactly what I was looking for. He and other notable researchers have also underlined the importance of symbolization in genetics.

Here are some of the articles I found thanks to you!!!

The Physics and Evolution of Symbols and Codes:Reflections on the Work of Howard Pattee There are many links on the page with wonderful detail, but the heart of the discussion is summarized by Howard H. Pattee

"The two great scientific disciplines of physics and evolution theory have traditionally been taught as disjoint subjects. Yet some billions of years ago, certain collections of physical molecules reached a level of complexity that began open-ended evolution by heritable (symbolic memory-based) variation and natural selection.

Von Neumann was the first to propose explicitly why this "threshold" of complexity requires description-based reproduction (taken for granted by biologists), but his argument was focused on the logical, not the physical requirements. He did not discuss the organizational requirements that would allow normal physical molecules to function as descriptions, nor was he clear about his logical distinction between "active" physical dynamics and "quiescent" symbolic descriptions. He did not mention the origin problem except to say it was "a miracle of the first magnitude."

Even if we still do not have a clear picture of the origin of life, the significance of this fundamental distinction between descriptions and constructions, that is, between semiotic processes (rules, codes, languages, information, control) and physical systems (laws, dynamics, energy, forces, matter) reaches to all levels of evolution. This is an essential distinction from the earliest genetic control of the synthesis of proteins, to the codes and languages of the brain, to the distinction between the mind and the brain (the knower and the known, the epistemic cut), and even to physical theory itself that requires a clear distinction between universal physical laws and the local semiotic process of measurement - an area in which there is still no consensus. This distinction between laws and semiosis, as well as how they are related, needs to be made more clearly at all levels if we are to fully understand evolution, physical laws, and the languages of the brain.

In biology, the basic physics and chemistry of elementary life processes as they exist on earth is well-developed. However, our knowledge of the semiotic controls and interactions within and between organisms and in some cases even in single cells is far from complete. In evolution theory it is still not clear that blind variation in a virtually infinite semiotic search space is adequate to explain so many successful species.

And from Rocha's introduction on the webpage (emphasis mine):

Pattee notes that the questions physicists and biologists ask about life are quite distinct, and have lead many to think of living systems as paradoxical. Pattee chose to work on the boundary between these two branches of science, and pursue a theoretical biophysics. From this interface position, it became clear to him that to study life and its origin one needs to study the origin of the genotype-phenotype distinction, which he observes, is an instance of the origin of symbol systems from material components. This symbol-matter or subject-object distinction occurs at all higher levels where symbols are related to a referent by an arbitrary code, and instantiates an epistemic cut, a concept he thoroughly develops here. I'm pinging nebullis, gore3000 and junior because they might also be interested in these finds!

1,247 posted on 12/10/2002 8:37:35 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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