Economist says U.S. on way to totalitarianism

NewsOK.com-The Daily Oklahoman ^ | 11-22-02 | The Oklahoman

[nanny]

I thought you did a good job.

I might disagree with you that what has and is happening is progress. That remains to be seen. But basically, I enjoyed your post. Some very good points.

[Noumenon]

...one thing is clear: There's something wrong with a government of supposedly "free" people that needs to skim off 50% of the GDP every year in order to run itself.

There's something more than wrong with a government that usurps my choices and extends its dominion over matters that are and should be purely a matter of individual conscience. That's tyranny - no matter how one parses it. Issues such as charity, abortion, home schooling, property 'takings' - are difficult and are in some cases impossible to 'resolve'. That's why living according to the principles of liberty is such damned hard work sometimes.

Someone once said that most people don't really want to be free - they just want a tyranny to their liking. Our poster Dane is a perfect example of that mindset. Trouble is, when folks like Dane get their wish, it always leads down a very, very dark and bloody road.

[sinkspur]

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!

I'm not wrong. I have an opinion, as you do.

You don't like my opinion, that's fine. But you're not wrong because you have a different opinion on secession.

Relax.

[MissAmericanPie]

It's pretty much a given we will end up in a totalitarian government, it's also biblical that the state of the world at the end of the world is a totalitarian, one world, government.

Doesn't mean you are free not to fight it with all you have though.

[Texasforever]

Someone once said that most people don't really want to be free - they just want a tyranny to their liking.

Someone also said that "one man's junk is another man's treasure". "Someone" is always saying something.

[x]

In theory, Williams is right. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. But his urgency and passion look a little out of place right now. When expansion of government comes, it's good to have someone like Williams to fight it, but some degree of governance, like death and taxes, is inevitable. Anarchy is a trap that libertarians would do well to avoid. Even with some welfare state institutions America is still a great place to live.

[Arioch7]

Who says he is a Libertarian?

[u-89]

disagree with you that what has and is happening is progress.

Please understand I am not saying that the state of affairs now is optimum or even progress in the right direction. A society structured by Williams would be a lot different than the current mess we have and the trade policies would be quite different too. We now have managed trade with winners and losers. We are not all equal under the law. Some businesses, groups or even foriegn entities leverage congress to make laws that favor them over others. And that's the tip of iceberg.

[nanny]

[We now have managed trade with winners and losers. We are not all equal under the law. Some businesses, groups or even foriegn entities leverage congress to make laws that favor them over others. And that's the tip of iceberg]

So true.

[jrp]

WW Bump

[Noumenon]

((((((((((((( crickets ))))))))))))

Still waiting for a comment or two....

[Pontiac]

The well known schtick of being reactionary and yelling that tyranny is behind every door.

Actually tyranny is hiding in the bushes waiting to jump out and make us all slaves.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

If we freedom loving people do not maintain our wariness of government power and act to check that power when it threatens to usurp the powers not granted to it, that government will eventually make us slaves.

The power to tax is the power to destroy.

What Doctor Williams is saying (I believe) is that governments power to tax is being permitted to balloon in order to finance services that are out side of our government’s constitutional purview.

The government’s taxing authority is being abused to provide goods and services for which there is no constitutional authority granted the government to provide.

Given free reign the government would tax all of us to the poor house to provide services to the masses in order to buy the votes necessary to insure reelection. The Dimocrats are much worse the Republicrats in this respect, but both sides of the isle are addicted to pork.

It may not be easy for some to see taxation as tyranny however taxes can and are frequently used to alter the behavior of people and business. This is a subtle and subversive form of tyranny. Government lays onerous taxes on a product to dissuade people from buying the product. Government provides a tax relief to induce people to build housing in poor neighbor hoods.

This is a subtle tyranny but coercion by government is tyranny. The Federal government has no constitutional mandate to use taxes in such a fashion.

I have heard Dr. Williams on Rush’s show several times and have found him to be an inspired and intelligent speaker.

[Revolutionary]

Taxes are a transfer of power, pure and simple. The Rats get a side benefit of buying more votes and skimming money off the top for themselves and their friends, but their goal is to tax your capability to resist their will.

[thinktwice]

What you have written is the truth, but the truth is not enough for socialists when it conflicts with deeply ingrained ideological or religious beliefs.

Socialists must avoid certain truths to remain socialists, and they will justify and rationalize that avoidance while ignoring or maligning (the ultimate weapon, the ad hominem attack) those speaking truth.

[Leatherneck_MT]

It's amazing to me to watch allegedly freedom loving People like yourselves bash and put down a man who is just like what you CLAIM to be.

I submit that all of you who disagree with what he says are one of 3 things. You are either DU'ers sent here to create disruption, you are Closet Communists, or you are so ignorant that it's beyond belief.

[Leatherneck_MT]

Amen, something I was trying to tell another poster in another thread earlier.

That which is created cannot be greater than the CreatOR.

[Republic of Texas]

" "Both acts involve taking the property of one person and giving it to another to whom it does not belong," Williams said. "The only way the American government can give a person a dollar is -- through threats, intimidation and coercion -- to take that money from somebody else. Just because you vote to take someone's property doesn't make it right." "

Leave it to the smartest man in America to boil it down into one succinct sentence.

[Leatherneck_MT]

"Republicans need to be reminded of the need to hold taxation in line so the economy doesn't get chocked by taxes"

I'll go you one better, we need to ELIMINATE Taxes (at least in their current form) and force the Govt to live within it's means and do what we pay it to do, defend the Country.. NOTHING else.

[x]

I don't think Walter Williams is a big-L Libertarian. I always thought of him as a small government conservative, someone with strong libertarian leanings, who doesn't necessarily go whole hog. One thing about economists, though: the purity, beauty and elegance of abstract models leads them to overvalue theoretical purity. A messy, confused political system may still have its advantages and be worth saving, even if it's not ideal.

[varon]

Walter Williams is correct in his opinions.

Ditto