To: SoCal Pubbie
"Your post, I'm afraid, is typical of those who doubt the Warren Report."
No, I don't believe the Warren Commission. Outside of The Lord of the Rings it's the biggest piece of Fantasy that's ever been written.
Oswald didn't have the skill to do the shooting, Period. No amount of practice with any kind of weapon would have improved on that. In the Marines he had the finest marksmanship trainers in the world trying to just get him good enough to QUALIFY. Anyone who has ever shot a KD course, or taught young Marines how to shoot (as I have) knows that it's not rocket science. However it does take a certain amount of skill and any Marine on this board can tell you that there are some people who just cannot be taught how to accurately fire a rifle. Lee was one of those people.
"Throw out all the eyewitness testimony, all the medical and ballistic evidence, the fact that Oswald fled the scene and fought with police, all of that, because one conclusion you make does not square with the facts of the case."
Yes, precisely. That's what the Government did. The end result was the Warren Commission. They threw out eyewitness testimony. Hundreds of people saw and heard shots being fired from the Grassy Knoll. Dozens were run out of the parking lot area behind the fence by people identifying themselves as Secret Service Agents. The Secret Service didn't have anyone IN Dealy Plaza that day. Who were these people? Dallas Police Officers reported this event. Accoustical Evidence report 4 shots fired. 4th shot and you have 2 shooters. 2 shooters = conspiracy to commit murder.
Even if Oswald was ONE of the shooters (which in my Professional opinion he was not) who was the other shooter? Out of 245 (approx number) witnesses in Dealy Plaza that day, within 3 years 225 (again approx) of them would be dead. What are the odds against that? Maybe the same odds that Lee could have done the shooting that day. Maybe the same odds that a 6MM soft nose round could go through 2 human bodies, cause 7 wounds, fracture and splinter bones and then fall out on a hosptital stretcher in absolute perfect condition?
"The actual interpretation of Oswald's performance shooting in the Marines has been debated"
Oswald went Unq (Unqualified) on several occasions. His rifle scores barely qualified him, there's no debat here. A KD (Known Distance) course is fired at 200, 300 and 600 yards. These are all done in a "Tight" sling position. Even with this kind of advantage and training, Oswald barely qualified. Coupled with this he was qualifying with a Highly Accurate rifle (the M14). The Manlicher Carcano that he allegedly killed the President with, is a NOTORIOUSLY Inaccurate rifle. (I've fired one). The Bolt sticks and makes it difficult to get your sight picture back on target. Furthermore the scope on the rifle had not even been boresighted to it. True, the shot would not have been difficult to someone who was a Rifle Expert. But to Oswald it would have been extremely difficult.
What about after the shots were fired. Where was he? A Dallas police officer ran across him 90 seconds later in the 2nd floor lunch room. Was he nervous? Was he out of breath? Was he sweating? No, absolutely not according to the Officer and Oswald's supervisor. How did he achieve running down 4 flights of stairs and end up where he was found completely unperterbed? (Sp) What was he doing there? He said he was buying a coke. But was he waiting for a phone call? Could be.. Could be he was also buying a coke like he said.
Prior to 11/22/1963 Oswald had been seen several times in the company of Jack Ruby. When he was in New Orleans, his address for his "Fair play for Cuba Committee" was 544 Camp Street. This is right in the heart of the United States Governments Intelligence community in 1962. Kind of an odd place for a Pro Communist sympathizer to be operating don't you think?
Oswald was exactly what he said he was. He was a patsy. Lee was the fall guy for this. He was American Intelligence from the day he joined the Marine Corps and was at the very least a DIA Operative (if not CIA) until the day he died.
"all the medical and ballistic evidence"
Strange that we would use this in a rebuttal especially since the Ballistic and Medical Evidence has been lost and or destroyed. Kennedy's brain could have provided current investigators with concrete proof that the shot that killed him came from his right front and not his left rear. However your government has "Lost" this evidence. The Doctor at the Parkland Hospital considered the wound in the rear of his head nothing more than an EXIT wound. Not an entrance wound. Exit wounds are always much larger than entrance wounds. Continuing on this point, the Bethesda Naval doctors said that an exit wound in Kennedy's throat had been eradicated by a tracheotomy performed at Parkland. That is so much hogwash it's not funny. There is no way physically possible that a small incision in the Trachea can eliminate evidence of an exit wound in the throat.
The tests given to Oswald that day (Parafin tests) indicated he had fired NOTHING. Someone else earlier intimated that his palm print was found on the stock of the rifle. This palm print didn't show up until after Oswald died. The director of the Funeral Home where Oswald was being prepared for burial stated that Federal Officers came to the Funeral home and demanded to be left alone with the body. Why were they in there?
I understand your inability or unwillingness to believe the "Conspiracy" theory. For many years I didn't want to believe it either. But then I started doing some investigating on my own and reading the accounts of investigators and I had to form my own opinions and conclusions and those are that Oswald never pulled the trigger.
I appreciate your views on this, but unfortunately your views do not hold up to the wealth of evidence out there that a Conspiracty to Assassinate the President did in fact exist. The House Committee on Assassinations concluded that Oswald did the shooting but he was not the only one. They directed the Justice Dept to investigate this and get to the bottom of it, but to this day the Justice Dept has done precisely NOTHING.
Semper Fi
To: Leatherneck_MT
Well said. The 'report' is hogwash.
As an aside, anyone who went through basic in those days, ['55 for me] can testify to cadre 'helping' recruits qualify at marksmanship.
And annual requalifications were an even bigger joke. Some pencil jockeys never ever even picked up a rifle after basic.
97 posted on
11/25/2002 12:14:45 PM PST by
tpaine
To: Leatherneck_MT
You, sir, are just plain wrong. The fact that Oswald scored in the expert category in the Marines is really beside the point. My point was that Oswald's history as a shooter is not "proof" that he could not have made the shots on November 22 of 1963. Eyewitness testimony that he was in Washington D.C that day or a video tape of his appearance on local TV in Portland would be. The fact is that, no, he was in the School Book depository that day. Even if he was drunk and half blind it is still POSSIBLE for him to make the shots. You cannot say that your opinion that he was not up to the task is "proof" of anything.
As for the eyewitness testimony, are you aware that the vast majority of the eyewitnesses, at the time, stated that the shots came form the direction of the Texas Scholl Book Depository? Just who are these people who "say shots coming from the grassy knoll"? Can you name them. Can you name one? "Dozens were run out of the parking lot area behind the fence by people identifying themselves as Secret Service Agents." Dozens? Again, can you name these "dozens" who saw "people" identifying themselves as Secret Service? And you say 225 people out of 245 were dead in three years? Aren't you padding the infamous Assassination Death List just a tad? Finally, the "stretcher bullet" was not in " absolute perfect condition", and you should know that, so you are either a liar or quite ignorant.
Again, Oswald scored in the mid range, achieving an "expert" rating. If this is barely qualifying then you should take it up the Corps you claim to love, since their training is so poor. Again, even if as you say it would have been extremely difficult it would not have been impossible so we cannot use that as 'evidence" of conspiracy.
" He said he was buying a coke. But was he waiting for a phone call? Could be.. Could be he was also buying a coke like he said." Oswald always drank Dr Pepper. As a DP fanatic myself, I can assure you he would never have been there for a Coke!
"Prior to 11/22/1963 Oswald had been seen several times in the company of Jack Ruby." Dates and places, please? "This is right in the heart of the United States Governments Intelligence community in 1962. Kind of an odd place for a Pro Communist sympathizer to be operating don't you think?" Not really, for a rabid communist lake Oswald who dreamed of showing the Soviets what a good and aggressive Comrade he was.
You misrepresent the medical evidence and testimony. ALL the doctors who actually worked on Kennedy later viewed the autopsy photos and x-rays and pronounced that compatible with what they saw in Dallas.
I don't have the time right now because it is getting late but again the facts of Oswald's prints on the rifle have been distorted in your post. Maybe tomorrow I'll look them up.
I'm afraid you don't understand my view on the matter at all. I ONCE BELIEVED IN THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? MY CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS HOWEVER WERE NOT BEEN TOTALLY ABANDONED AND I GREW TO SEE IT WAS ALL BS!!!!! Look, believe what you want but there is really nothing there. Nobody popped up from under the manhole cover, no one sprayed poison from the umbrella, there was no one on the overpass, no "triangulation of fire". Just Oswald, on the sixth floor, with the rifle.
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