4th-grader suspended for gun shell in pocket

worldnetdaily.com ^ | November 21, 2002

[Adder]

Yeah...maybe they should have just taken it from him...LIKE THEY USED TO DO. In reading the balance of the article it is apparent that idiots are teaching our kids. How sad. How sad.

[RogueIsland]

If this kid walked into the school with a live shotgun shell in his pocket, then some kind of severe punishment is warranted.

Nonsense. It was unintentional and there was no bad intent. Some common sense should have been applied (something nonexistent in education in America today). The principal should have taken it and kept it in the office until a parent could have come by to claim it. No muss, no fuss.

[moyden]

Every educrat is a sadistic thug.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Part of me can't wait for all these kids to grow up and exercise their own zero-tolerance policies on government stupidity.

[Flint]

A shotgun shell is no more dangerous than a can of shaving cream, or WD-40.

[smoking camels]

so I guess you would not like the fact that I carried shotguns to school when I was a kid? (I am 31 yrs. old now) We all did when we were going to a friends house after school. I carried a full hunting knife to school from grades 4 through 8.

[RonF]

I'm quite familiar with shotgun shells. And as a Scouter for the last 10 years, I'm also quite familiar with 4th grade boys. I don't know what you guys know about 4th grade boys. But, if you don't think that some bully in this school wasn't fully capable of taking this shell from this kid and then smacking a nail with a rock up against the primer to see what would happen, you don't know much.

I think zero-tolerance policies in schools are ridiculous. But when someone brings live ammo to school, you don't need zero-tolerance to figure that a penalty needs to be applied. Whether the one in this case was appropriate is another matter. I'd fine the parents $50 or $100, personally. It was their stupidity.

I'm no anti-gun activist, either. My son has earned his Rifle Shooting and Shotgun Shooting Merit Badges, and I was very proud when he did. But live ammo doesn't belong in school.

Yes, I brought knives to school when I was a kid. It was O.K. then. But then you didn't have schools with kids in them that get their ideas of how to run interpersonal relationships by watching hip-hop and rap videos, and thinking that fear=respect, and that the way to deal with insults (either real or perceived) is to attack someone with a weapon. In the Boy Scouts, all the kids have knives. I never saw anyone have to have a knife taken away from him because he threatened someone when I was a kid, but I've seen it now. Which is not to say that knives should be taken from Boy Scouts, nor that I think that butter knives in school should result in an expulsion. But the world has changed.

[TankerKC]

straight-A student

Is every kid who gets into trouble at school a straight-A student?

[On the Road to Serfdom]

I'm quite familiar with shotgun shells. And as a Scouter for the last 10 years, I'm also quite familiar with 4th grade boys. I don't know what you guys know about 4th grade boys. But, if you don't think that some bully in this school wasn't fully capable of taking this shell from this kid and then smacking a nail with a rock up against the primer to see what would happen, you don't know much.

In the past, say, 50 years how many children have died from a shotgun shell absent a firearm? Zero? You believe they are dangerous because?

You can kill someone with a pencil by stabbing them. I would worry more about kids with pencils then kids with shotgun shells. I bet the statistics would confirm this if anyone cared enough to look it up.

[Sweet_Sunflower29]

I worry about him taking a spent shell to school...

My two younger children love to collect the spent shell casings that picked up of the ground after a weekend out shooting. I knew they ended up in their pockets because I found them in the washer, and I knew they ended up in their backpacks because the following Monday they'd take them out of the backpack after school, give them to us or put them in a jar.

We now remind them to empty the pockets after such a weekend...

:)

[Sweet_Sunflower29]

...shaving cream, or WD-40

I believe that those items, if they don't already, would probably carry a manditory 5 day suspension as well...

[RonF]

In the past, say, 50 years how many children have died from a shotgun shell absent a firearm? Zero?

I don't know. How do you know?

You believe they are dangerous because?

They contain gunpowder and a primer cap. Seems pretty obvious to me. Of course they can be handled safely, and even casually. But in the hands of someone immature and intent on mischief they can be dangerous. And if you can't see the difference between a pencil and live ammo, I'm afraid I can't help you.

[Hank Kerchief]

First of all, I am fully aware of todays government school conditions and understand your concern. But your answer is exactly what I said it would be, a "what if." What if someone took the shell away from the boy and did something bad with it.

Nevertheless, you provided a long answer, and I believe it deserves a reasoned response.

You said, Yes, I brought knives to school when I was a kid. It was O.K. then.

I frequently had various kinds of ammo in my pockets when I went to school, and on several occastions even brought a rifle to school. No one even raised an eyebrow. The reason that could not be thought of today is because as you said, But then you didn't have schools with kids in them that get their ideas of how to run interpersonal relationships by watching hip-hop and rap videos, and thinking that fear=respect, and that the way to deal with insults (either real or perceived) is to attack someone with a weapon and ...the world has changed.

That is the point I am making. Moral values do not change. People may change, policies may change, but moral values do not. It cannot be morally wrong to have bullets in your pocket.

But, as you pointed out, today we have kids who have no compuction about using weapons or anything else to harm others. Now that is immoral, and that should not be tolerated. I believe the should be zero tolerance, but we have directed the zero tolerance toward the wrong people. If we had exercised zero tolerance to all of uncontrollable kids, if no amount to classroom disruption, foul language, threatening, and worse that goes on today were tolerated, if they threw all these young thugs out of the schools, we would not have to worry about what decent kids brought to school.

We have made a big mistake in this country. Bad people are allowed to be bad, and because they are obviously dangerous, the solution is to eliminate the freedoms of the decent. This is backwards, and immoral.

If you really think someone should be fined, it should be all the parents of the young thugs who have made it impossible for decent kids to be treated with respect.

Hank

[Mulder]

Everyone knew the rules and he broke the rule. It doesn't matter whether it was by accident or on purpose.

This nation was founded on "breaking the rules", (except for the really important ones, of course).

You do realize that ALL of us break the rules on a daily basis, simply because there are so many rules, and millions of us Americans relish breaking silly rules as often as possible?

[Mulder]

Anyone who believes that public schools have anything to do with education is a fool.

For the most part, they are nothing more than indoctrination centers involved in the overthrow of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

As such, the schools participating in this sedition should be immediately defunded, and their leaders should be put before a trial consisting of a jury of their peers.

Let the treasonous bastards get a real taste of "zero tolerance".

[stainlessbanner]

live shotgun shell in his pocket

Just curious, do you think he was going to throw the shell at somebody and hurt them?

[Adder]

Sadly, I am afraid they will grow up to believe that any authority can demand that they 1] submit to any search at any time and 2]it is right and natural for government to tell them what do do and say. 3] there will be no disputing the "policies of the pee-pul".
A look at the so-called diversity on college campuses is a good place to look to see whats coming.

[RonF]

You make a number of good points. In fact, if punk kids were tossed out of school a lot quicker, instead of asking the schools to be mental health facilities, they'd be better schools. I'm firmly convinced that many kids who supposedly have various problems have one problem; indulgent and self-centered parents. But then you're asking people to solve their own problems instead of demanding that the State do it for them so that they can continue to conduct their lives unhindered, in the fashion they are accustomed to. However, consider this proposition: the schools are they way they are. There are bullies and punks in the schools. Knowing this, and knowing that it's not going to magically change when you walk in the door today, it's wrong today to walk in the door with live ammo. Should the school environment change, then that too could change. Reminds me of when I was a kid, and I listened in the late '60's to Bill Cosby albums. Back then, Bill wasn't a black Mr. Rogers. One of the jokes he told was describing what happened when his buddies in school used to go to shop class and throw a bullet into the shop furnace when no one was looking. No one meant any harm - apparently the bullet stayed in the furnace - and he'd go on to describe the reactions, verbal and otherwise, when the bullet shell exploded. But it goes to show that even back when we were kids, kids were doing stupid things with live ammo in schools.