Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

I've commented heavily. I doubted I could be more angry with the Germans than I am before, but their snobbishness, arrogance, and this air of moral superiority they are casting about ("Oh we've admitted our failures, you ought to as well") is so disgusting I can barely believe I spent so many years studying the language.

Ah well, there's always Switzerland.

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 11/20/2002 5:09:12 PM PST by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last
To: TopQuark; TexKat; Iowa Granny; vbmoneyspender; America's Resolve; BigWaveBetty; widgysoft; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 11/20/2002 5:09:32 PM PST by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
Germany sucks!
3 posted on 11/20/2002 5:13:03 PM PST by Sparta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
The Germans still maintain a core essence of Nazism. It cannot be entirely irradicated. We Marines did our best though. Looks like the crauts need another big fist to slap them back to their senses.
4 posted on 11/20/2002 5:14:51 PM PST by fogarty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
I think there was some debate in your land during the war. Didn't Orwell address it?
5 posted on 11/20/2002 5:15:02 PM PST by Shermy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
"But 95 per cent of my book deals with what happened after the bombs left the planes. You have to look at what happened on the ground. This is a new contribution to the discussion, the depth of the suffering which happened on the ground."

Yes... what happened was great suffering and death, encouraged by a mass of people supporting a racist madman. The German people didn't learn their lesson after WWI.

6 posted on 11/20/2002 5:22:40 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All


Prime Minister Winston Churchill's Speech to the Allied Delegates
St. James's Place, London, June 12, 1941

In the twenty-second month of the war against Nazism, we meet here in this old Palace of St. James's, itself not unscarred by the fire of the enemy, in order to proclaim the high purposes and resolves of the lawful constitutional governments of Europe whose countries have been overrun, and we meet here also to cheer the hopes of free men and free peoples throughout the world.

Here before us on the table lie the title deeds of ten nations or states whose soil has been invaded and polluted and whose men women and children lie prostrate or writhing under the Hitler yoke.

But here also, duly authorized by Parliament and the democracy of Britain, are gathered the servants of the ancient British monarchy and the accredited representatives of the British dominions beyond seas of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, of the Empire of India, of Burma and of our colonies in every quarter of the globe. They have drawn their swords in this cause. They will never let them fall till life is gone or victory is won.

Here we meet while from across the Atlantic Ocean the hammers and lathes of the United States signal in a rising hum their message of encouragement and their promise of swift and ever-growing aid.

What tragedies, what horrors, what crimes has Hitler and all that Hitler stands for brought upon Europe and the world! The ruins of Warsaw, of Rotterdam, of Belgrade are monuments which will long recall to future generations the outrage of unopposed air bombing applied with calculated scientific cruelty to helpless populations. Here in London and throughout the cities of our island and in Ireland there may also be seen marks of devastation. They are being repaid and presently they will be more than repaid.

But far worse than these visible injuries is the misery of the conquered peoples. We see them hounded, terrorized, exploited. Their manhood by the million is forced to work under conditions indistinguishable in many cases from actual slavery. Their goods and chattels are pillaged or filched for worthless money. Their homes, their daily life are pried into and spied upon by the all pervading system of secret political police which, having reduced the Germans themselves to abject docility, now stalks the streets and byways of a dozen lands. Their religious faiths are affronted, persecuted or oppressed in the interest of a fanatic paganism devised to perpetuate the worship and sustain the tyranny of one abominable creature. Their traditions, their culture, their laws, their institutions, social and political alike, are suppressed by force or undermined by subtle, coldly planned intrigue.

The prisons of the continent no longer suffice. The concentration camps are overcrowded. Every dawn German volleys crack. Czechs, Poles, Dutchmen, Norwegians, Yugoslavs and Greeks, Frenchmen, Belgians, Luxemburgers make the great sacrifice for faith and country. A vile race of Quislings-to use a new word which will carry the scorn of mankind down the centuries-is hired to fawn upon the conqueror, to collaborate in his designs and to enforce his rule upon their fellow countrymen while groveling low themselves. Such is the plight of once glorious Europe and such are the atrocities against which we are in arms.

Your excellencies, my lords and gentlemen, it is upon this foundation that Hitler, with his tattered lackey, Mussolini, at his tail and Admiral Darlan frisking by his side, pretends to build out of hatred, appetite and racial assertion a new order for Europe. Never did so mocking a fantasy obsess the mind of mortal man.

We cannot tell what the course of this fell war will be as it spreads, remorseless, through ever wider regions.

It will not be by German hands that the structure of Europe will be rebuilt or union of the European family achieved. In every country into which the German armies and Nazi police have broken there has sprung up from the soil a hatred of the German name and contempt for the Nazi creed which the passage of hundreds of years will not efface from human memory.

We know it will be hard; we expect it to be long, we cannot predict or measure its episodes or its tribulations. But one thing is certain, one thing is sure, one thing stands out stark and undeniable, massive and unassailable for all the world to see. We cannot see how deliverance will come or when it will come, but nothing is more certain that every trace of Hitler's footsteps, every stain of his infected, corroding fingers will be sponged and purged and, if need be, blasted from the surface of the earth. We are here, your excellencies, to affirm and fortify our union in that ceaseless and unwearying effort which must be made if the captive peoples are to be set free.

A year ago His Majesty's Government was left alone to face the storm, and to many of our friends and enemies alike it may have seemed that our days, too, were numbered and that Britain and its institutions would sink forever beneath the verge. But I may with some pride remind your excellencies that even in that dark hour when our army was disorganized and almost weaponless when scarcely a gun or tank remained in Britain, when almost all our stores and ammunition had been lost in France, never for one moment did the British people dream of making peace with the conqueror and never for a moment did they despair of the common cause.

On the contrary, we proclaimed at that very time to all men, not only to ourselves, our determination not to make peace until every one of the ravaged and enslaved countries was liberated and until the Nazi domination was broken and destroyed.

See how far we have traveled since those breathless days of June, a year ago! Our solid, stubborn strength has stood an awful test. We are the masters of our own air and now reach out in ever-growing retribution upon the enemy. The Royal Navy holds the seas. The Italian fleet cowers, diminished, in harbor and the German Navy largely is crippled or sunk. The murderous raids upon our ports, cities and factories have been powerless to quench the spirit of the British nation, to stop our national life or check the immense expansion of our war industry. Food and arms from across oceans are coming safely in. Full provision to replace all sunken tonnage is being made here, and still more by our friends in the United States. We are becoming an armed community. Our land forces are being perfected in equipment and training.

Hitler may turn and trample this way and that through tortured Europe. He may spread his course far and wide and carry his curse with him. He may break into Africa or into Asia. But it is here, in this island fortress, that he will have to reckon in the end. We shall strive to resist by land and sea.

We shall be on his track wherever he goes. Our air power will continue to teach the German homeland that war is not all loot and triumph. We shall aid and stir the people of every conquered country to resistance and revolt. We shall break up and derange every effort which Hitler makes to systematize and consolidate his subjugations. He will find no peace, no rest, no halting place, no parley. And if, driven to desperate hazards, he attempts invasion of the British Isles, as well he may, we shall not flinch from the supreme trial. With the help of God, of which we must all feel daily conscious, we shall continue steadfast in faith and duty till our task is done.

This then, my lords and gentlemen, is the message which we send forth today to all states and nations, bound or free, to all the men in all the lands who care for freedom's cause. To our Allies and well-wishers in Europe, to our American friends and helpers drawing ever closer in their might across the ocean, this is the message-lift up your hearts, all will come right. Out of depths of sorrow and sacrifice will be born again the glory of mankind.

___________

Quite frankly, Fritz can go straight to hell.

Regards, Ivan

7 posted on 11/20/2002 5:22:52 PM PST by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
I plan to avoid ever buying another German product. Europe's patient is about to go into critical condition, and we've all seen what happens when the Fatherland feels threatened....
8 posted on 11/20/2002 5:23:15 PM PST by clintonh8r
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
Love your posts!

Like you...Warum hab' Ich Deutsch gelernt????

I was watching a Deutsche Welle correspondent on the news this evening (Eastern US) say that the sentiment in Adolph's old digs was not so much anti-Americanism (after all, American music, American movies...are still popular) as it was anti-Bushism. The host noted that these Euro types loved Clinton. The correspondent from DW and his Swedish counterpart nodded affirmatively. Dear Lord! They genuinely believe Bubba Rex is superior to Bush. These are blind guides, indeed.

Hang on to your hat, Ivan. It is going to be many years and many more 09/11's before these wacko socialists wake up...if then.

Blessings on Freepers Everywhere.
9 posted on 11/20/2002 5:23:30 PM PST by esopman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
Y'know, you Brits are pretty derned cool when you've got yer dander up a bit. Bravo, Ivan...and, thanks for the post, with your commentary.

I think the Germans and French have lost their bloomin' minds, so eager are they to dance with Mr. D.

11 posted on 11/20/2002 5:29:57 PM PST by jwfiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
I find this on some level rather alarming. I get the feeling they're searching for an excuse to elect another Fuhrer to address these trumped up past greivances. They're going to get slapped down with a nuclear fist if they try this again.
13 posted on 11/20/2002 5:31:38 PM PST by Brett66
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
All you would-be mass-murderers in training who preen about as such moral exemplars should read F.J.P. Veale's Advance to Barbarism, still, after 60 years, the unrefuted indictment of the kind of mentality being displayed on this thread.
15 posted on 11/20/2002 5:36:27 PM PST by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
I'm a fan of Churchill's. And I haven't read this book so I can't really judge it. But it has long been argued that at least SOME of the bombing of German cities was a bad and mistaken policy. Most analysts agreed (well before the revisionists came along) that bombing the cities as opposed to factories and rail lines did not do much to harm the German war effort or to end the war sooner. But it did kill a lot of people unnecessarily.

I'm not familiar with the bombing of Hamburg. Hamburg was an industrial city, so it's very possible that most of the bombing was justified on that basis. The bombing of Dresden is a different matter. That was pretty hard to justify.
17 posted on 11/20/2002 5:49:46 PM PST by Cicero
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
The truly great crime was that ANY SS or Gestapo members were allowed to continue to live after the war. Every single one of them were war criminals, and every single one of them should have gotten a a trip to the gallows or a firing squad.
21 posted on 11/20/2002 6:05:33 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
"It was the same after Coventry and Hamburg. Hitler talked of Coventry-isation while Churchill talked of Hamburg-isation. He wanted to do the same to Berlin, to kill 100,000 people there, although he didn't manage it.

He didn't manage it? I thought that Berlin was largely ceded to the Russians at Yalta. Flattening Berlin would've been nixed for the same reason that we stopped at the Elbe- no sense in losing western troops on something we weren't going to be able to keep anyway. Additionally, it likely would have been viewed as a provocation by the Russians: Zhukov's and Koniev's artillery notwithstanding, blowing it up in their faces might not have been well received.

22 posted on 11/20/2002 6:16:59 PM PST by Riley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Friedrich asked: "Do you want to live in a nation which doesn't know its own past? Do you want to live in a nation which has to hide its own past because it cannot look into the face of its past? Is this the way of honest men? No.

Ivan - perhaps he should be addressing his countries major partner in the Axis - the Japanese. Seems they've managed to forget all about their past.


23 posted on 11/20/2002 6:28:58 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
And those rockets and bombing raids on London were what, a bad dream. I will never understand the way the mind of the Euroweenie works. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE.
24 posted on 11/20/2002 6:39:41 PM PST by satchmodog9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
You get 'em, MadIvan! This stuff is outrageous.
25 posted on 11/20/2002 6:41:32 PM PST by ffrancone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
In his book, graphic descriptions of trapped civilian populations being burned to death
by the fire storms of the later bombing campaigns and of people collecting the incinerated
body parts of their loved ones and leaving them at the gates of over-filled cemeteries

are combined with the numbers of those killed.


well, unlike most of the Jews of Europe, at least they had living relatives to collect
their remains...


This is distressing...to see Germans turn into Japanese in terms of denial and
self-delusion.

I now regret buying a Mercury Capri (made in Germany) when I was in college...
28 posted on 11/20/2002 6:53:04 PM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
Looks like the revisionism has gone on-line as well.

During a couple of the dust-ups we've had here on freerepublic on Dresden, it's
been my pleasure to direct people to the website maintained by The City Of Dreden
which dispassionately mentioned that something (IIRC) 70% of the extensive indurstrial
plant of the city was destroyed in the raids.

Maybe that is still on the website, but it appears to me that that passage has been
replaced with a "25,000 people" were killed by the Dreden bombings.

To me that has been the revisionist approach to Dresden...people leaving the
impression that Dresden was not an industrial center.

And, as cruel as it sounds, and as hideous as the Dresden bombings seem IN RETROSPECT,
I hate to think what would have happened to the Dresdeners if the USA had been
bled as much as the U.K. during two world wars.

There would have been the possibility that there the term "Dresdener" would have
been a synonym with "extinct"...
30 posted on 11/20/2002 7:09:14 PM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: MadIvan
Wanna hear something really scary?

Jörg Friedrich is a moron.

and yes I'm still proud of my screen name.

33 posted on 11/20/2002 7:32:13 PM PST by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson