Is Israel becoming less Jewish?

israelinsider.com ^ | November 19, 2002 | Shalom Freedman

[Destro]

Is Israel becoming less Jewish?

By Shalom Freedman November 19, 2002

The threat to the Jewish character of the Jewish state is growing more and more severe. This is first and above all because of the much higher (two and one half times higher) birth rate of the Arab population. But it is also because of three other factors which have only come into play in recent years. One is the large number of guest workers who are choosing to make Israel their permanent home. A second reason is the large number of non-Jews who have been part of the wave of immigration from the Soviet Union. A third factor is the illegal residence in Israel of a large number of Arabs from across the Green Line, including many who have moved from the Hebron area into Jerusalem.

If in 1960 Jews constituted eighty-nine percent of the state, today they constitute only seventy-eight percent. And this official number does not include the large number of unregistered foreign workers or Arabs residing illegally in Israel.

A considerable part of Israel's Muslim population has rejected its own minority status and refuses to consider itself part of the Jewish state. A great share of Israeli Arabs are, in their own eyes, Palestinians who believe the demographic factor will lead to the day when the state becomes not a Jewish state, but a "state of all its citizens." This is for them a stage toward the eventual transformation of the country into a part of the larger Arab world, i.e. making it into yet another Arab state.

As for the large group of non-Jews, estimated at between three hundred and five hundred thousand, who came with the wave of aliyah from the former Soviet Union, it is clear that the great majority of them will make no serious effort at Halachic conversion. A certain number of these non-Jewish immigrants are actually believing Christians who are crowding Israel's Orthodox Christian churches on Sundays more than ever before.

As for the guest workers, the same reality applies here as has been seen in most countries of Western Europe. The workers first come temporarily, but tempted by the higher standard of living, they extend their stay and eventually begin bringing their families over. There is a growing population of young people among this group who will in time have Israeli citizenship, but will not be Jewish.

At present there is no sign of the non-Jewish populations cooperating politically. But should they do so, it is likely that the first item in their platform will be to detach Israel from the Jewish people, and make it the 'state of all its citizens' that the Arab minority so desperately wants.

There is another alarming sense in which Israel is becoming less Jewish. The extreme polarization between the religious and the secular has resulted in secular Jews moving farther and farther away from Jewish tradition. The unfortunate efforts at religious coercion on the part of the ultra-Orthodox have led to a backlash in the larger secular society. The grandchildren of many of those secular Jews who were founding fathers of Israel are often simply ignorant of Judaism.

It appears that the broad, moderate, Masorti, or traditional center of the Jewish people is being reduced from both sides. Therefore, a broad consensus around a few basic principles of Jewish and Israeli identity is becoming less and less likely. This is reflected in the increasing numbers of young people who, for one reason or another, do not serve in the army. Already forty-five percent of those of enlistment age, including religious youths who opt for yeshiva studies as well as others, find their way out of it.

Countering this process of diminishing Jewishness is likely to be more difficult than it has been in the past. Aliyah, the traditional answer, is more and more problematic as assimilation increases in the Diaspora. Aliyah from the former Soviet Union is a good example of this. Perhaps a large infusion of religious Jewish immigrants might help, but it may well be that the numbers are not large enough to make a vital difference.

Certainly efforts to facilitate conversion of Israel's non-Jewish immigrant population, without sacrificing authenticity, should be increased. Until now, the numbers of converted immigrants have been small, and most have managed to live without it. The non-Jewish population of Israel is already so large that it can show some contempt for the majority's institutions.

Still another suggested remedy for the problem is the bringing to Israel of large numbers of crypto-Jews from various parts of the world. This idea of mass immigration of communities that identify themselves as being lost members of the Children of Israel makes certain sense but may too be Utopian, as there are no signs that those masses are on their way here.

One additional possible answer is through peace negotiations, in which the Arab party to the conflict is ceded certain heavily populated areas within Israel. An agreement, in which the Arabs become part of an Arab political entity, leaving Jews as the outright majority of a Jewish one, is a diplomatic possibility. But it is one which may have insurmountable security difficulties.

A more fundamental improvement of the situation would come from a massive overhaul of the school systems within Israel. This would involve an emphasis on more serious teaching of Judaism and Jewish history in the secular school system, and a wholly revamped program in various Haredi institutions which would connect them to the historical life of their own people. The goal of this fundamental change would be an increased involvement of larger segments of the Jewish population in the activities of the Jewish state in order to strengthen its Jewish character.

Most importantly, Israeli political leaders must become more aware of the increasing threat to the Jewish character of Israel. They must begin seeking ways to ensure that an enterprise created through the sacrifice and effort of generations will not be carelessly dissipated through an apathetic resignation to the extension of present trends. Views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect those of israelinsider.

Shalom Freedman is an American-born writer on Jewish subjects who has lived and worked in Israel for many years.

sfreedman@bezeqint.net

[Alouette]

I never said taht Conservative, Reform, or secular Jews all act perfectly.

Then you should not point a finger at Hareidim who misbehave. Every group has its misfits. But that is besides the point.

Israel needs to allow non-Orthodox Judaism, if only to keep some of teh less religious from become secular.

The non-Orthodox denominations have been functioning in Israel from day one. They have a very small group of followers (mostly North Americans who come to live for a while, then leave). Their track record at "keeping the faith" is less than exemplary, as their primary message seems to be "you can be religious and still hate the Orthodox." That approach has never worked, but the reform and Masorti groups in Israel like to whine and blame the Orthodox for their own failure to attract and keep people. Anyway, most of the non-Jewish immigrants from Russia are practicing Christians and have no interested in converting to Judaism, no matter how easy the non-Orthodox make it.

Thirty years ago, a Reform rabbi told me that Judaism in Russia was dying out--that the Jews there were perfectly happy under communism and had no interest in religion. According to him, Jewish life in Russia should be totally extinct by now.

Today, my son is an ultra-Orthodox rabbi in Russia, managing a huge flourishing network of synagogues, yeshivos, day schools and summer camps throughout the former Soviet Union. All of this was accomplished without making Judaism "easier" to attract the non-observant.

[Lizard_King]

Last time I checked voicing opposition and contempt against a subset of Judaism isn't an "attack."

You're absolutely right. An attack would have to consist of some basis in fact, which you lack. Therefore, I now dub your posts "spasmodic outpourings of vitriol against the Orthodox Jewish people masked as patronizing concern for the people of Israel as a whole". Happy?

You sound like Leni Fourlanie

Coming from you, that is *almost* a compliment. If *you* think I am like a Democrat, then I must be anything but that.

They, not I, are the ones who act in Taliban like strides

So it continues. You smear the Orthodox further, present no evidence of this insidious Orthodox plot beyond vague insinuations of the threat posed (in Worcester, MA, no less) to your liberties, and anecdotal aberrations unrelated to the Orthodox Community as a whole.

Or a Nazi?

I never called you a Nazi. All I said was that perhaps you might want to consider why a group of avowed Neo-Nazis would find your words worth quoting, whatever they were, and what the ideological company you keep might say to you about the morality of your views. But continue to dodge the issue, of course. No need to alter your MO now...

All I keep seeing from you is flaming.

You set the tone of the discussion by comparing the Orthodox Jews directly to the Taliban, not I. If you can't take the proverbial heat such an absurdly vile comparison is going to bring you, I suggest you find a new kitchen to hang out in.

But they've shown repeadtly that they wish to control and force their religious views on others with unpleasent end results.

Then Show Me How This Is True. Where you have been forced to do something by Orthodox Jews. What repressive laws the Orthodox have been successful in passing, in either the US or Israel. Don't just keep flailing about.

while the secular folks WANTED TO BE LEFT ALONE.

If that were in any way the case with you, you would not have begun by asserting the similarity of Orthodoxy to fundamentalist Islamic terrorists/despots, and then continued to defend such a nauseating viewpoint by dodging direct questions and using the Chomskyesque tactic of arguing by implication so that you can never be forced to defend your "points".

Have you ever been to Israel?

Yes, I have. And as fortune has had it, I have been surrounded by large numbers of all kinds of Jews both at home and at college. What is your point?

One constant was the disgusting attempts at control that were fostered upon secular folks. Pointing that out really pisses Aloutte and his foul mouthed friends off which is quite sad.

Were that what you were actually doing, we would not be having this discussion. I have plenty of reservations about the policies the Orthodox party chooses to promote; it is a far cry from saying that that in any way makes them morally or functionally equivalent to the Taliban. The former is a debatable criticism; the latter is obvious slander.

Think of the good they could do if instead of blasting me and others, they learned to control THEMSELVES.

A professor of mine once said that anyone who insults you while claiming to be looking out for your interests is the worst kind of enemy. He meant folks like you, I believe. If you are going to be overtly against a group of people and their way of life, at least have the nerve to be honest about it, and spare them the patronizing conclusion...

[KantianBurke]

"An attack would have to consist of some basis in fact, which you lack."

Did you even bother to read my posts before you climbed onto your high horse of self rightousness? Suffice it to say if you want an obvious instance of Orthodox offensiveness inquire regarding their control of marriages in Israel. Bluntly, unless you kiss their ass and fulfill THEIR requirements concerning Jewish marriage, you're out of luck.

"anecdotal aberrations unrelated to the Orthodox Community as a whole."

Make up your mind. Am I just spouting off accusations without evidence or am I introducing releveant instances of Orthodox zealotry? On a previous thread I posted about a half a dozen lniked stories from the Jerusalem Post and other Israeli media outlets showing instances of some Jews acting like power hungry mullahs over the objections of the secular community. Did little good as Aloutte and his pals dismissed them arbitrarily as "Nazis lies" and continued name calling and smearing. Somehow I doubt a reintroduction of those links would do you any good as dogmatic individuals such as yourself have an aversion to the truth.

"All I said was that perhaps you might want to consider why a group of avowed Neo-Nazis would find your words worth quoting"

I guess all of those secular Jews who have had enough of zealot tactics are therefore worth quoting by Nazis too huh? Sheesh wish I had a direct line to God so I could tell off all those lapsed Jews!

"You set the tone of the discussion by comparing the Orthodox Jews directly to the Taliban"

Thats correct and I stand by that comment. However the definition of flaming around here is commonly refering to what Mr. Robinson, you know the owner of FR, has expressly forbidden i.e. PERSONAL ATTACKS. Most grownups are capable of abiding by that rule. Including, though I'm sure this is a shock to your college senseabilities, holier than thou posters such as Yeuda and you.

"Then Show Me How This Is True"

I'd be more than happy to though, once again, I'm skeptical that it would do any good in your case. The "faithful" have a poor track record of that.

"I have been surrounded by large numbers of all kinds of Jews both at home and at college. What is your point?"

Good for you. Tolerance for other sects of Judaism is always a good thing. If only the religious would adhere to such a policy. However if you started ordering the less observant Jews around and condeming them for not achieving such a puritanical state than yourself, I'm doubtful you would have had such a pleasent time. Which is precisely my point on this whole matter. You want to be passionate about the Torah, fine. BUT LEAVE ME AND MY FAMILY IN PEACE.

"I have plenty of reservations about the policies the Orthodox party chooses to promote"

Well well well, a minute ago you were saying how squeaky clean the Orthodox in Israel were. Care to go a bit more in depth as to your reservations? I for one have no such hesitancy and call their behavior as I see it; theocratic and dictatorial.

"A professor of mine once said that anyone who insults you while claiming to be looking out for your interests is the worst kind of enemy"

Yeah college professors are real fountains of wisdom. Its comforting to know that someone such as yourself is taking what they say to heart. (sarcasm off)

[TopQuark]

Odd how its the non-observant Jews who know how to behave. I do not know the background of your grievance, but I can tell you that Alouette, while being unambiguous and frank in her posts, has never been other than a true lady. And, more generally, if someone tells you that you may be confusing the names, it is a moral thing to do to back off, is it not? Accusations are not to made in doubt -- that's one of the commandments, essentially, hence a part of the rules "to behave."

I also fail to understand how you can generalize from the behavior of a few Orthodox to all of them. Is it not what anti-Semites typically do: find one amoral act of one Jew and generalize to all?

[TopQuark]

Thank you so much for your post! For those who drown in "big" and difficult issues, your simple guidance should help greatly:

Please, just look at the disgraceful company one keeps in taking such a stance against Orthodox Jews. Well said.

[Southern Federalist]

Exactly where in the article does the author advocate discrimination against non-Jews in immigration and citizenship?

I think it's implicit in the first sentence: "The threat to the Jewish character of the Jewish state is growing more and more severe."

In other words, he doesn't advocate discrimination against non-Jews in immigration and citizenship; you are putting words in his mouth.

Describing the threat requires making distinctions between Jews and non-Jews, in other words, discriminating between the groups.

Well, yes, describing the relationship between any two groups involves "discriminating between the groups," that is, distinguishing them. But this has nothing to do with civil discrimination of the kind you charged the author with favoring.

The solution to the dilution of the Jewishness of Israel is to prevent it by exercising a bias in favor of Jews and against non-Jews. The article doesn't state that, but how else can the threat be fought?

One way you could answer your last question is by actually reading the article, rather than just scanning it for places where your knee jerks. As you rightly point out, the "article doesn't state" what you foist on it; the author never at any point advocates "exercising a bias in favor of Jews and against non-Jews."

His answers to your question are right there on the page: encourage more Jews with a strong sense of identity to come to Israel, and strengthen school instruction in the Jewish tradition.

Frankly, your talk of "bias" sounds like typical Leftist smearing. Is it "bias" against non-western immigrants to the US to require their children to study the Declaration of Indepedence in public schools? After all, the Declaration is a thoroughly western document, and is even religious, with deep roots in Biblical tradition even though it is not an explicitly Christian document. There is, for example, no "Creator" in Buddhism by whom we could be endowed with rights.

If it isn't "bias" for the US to have a national political tradition rooted in a Christian past, why would it be bias for Israel to want citizen children of Asian guest workers to know about the ideas of "freedom, justice and peace ... envisaged by the prophets of Israel" (Israeli Declaration of Statehood) to which Israel is committed? That is the author's main proposal -- education in Jewish tradition for all citizens of the Jewish state.

[TopQuark]

get the orthodox to "live and let live" Look, I do not know whether you are Kantian Burke or Nietschean Jefferson, but who the h--l does not let you live?

If you are typical "liberal" Jew, you eat whatever you want, drive and work whenever you want, and don't go to the shul. Listenting to you one imagines those Orthodox keeping you in chains.

First, see whether you marry a Jewess, and if you are married, see whether you will raise Jewish children. That is your least payment to those who died so that you may live. And guess what? I have no slightest doubt that the orthodox will fullfil that obligation.

[Alouette]

On a previous thread I posted about a half a dozen lniked stories from the Jerusalem Post and other Israeli media outlets showing instances of some Jews acting like power hungry mullahs over the objections of the secular community. Did little good as Aloutte and his pals dismissed them arbitrarily as "Nazis lies" and continued name calling and smearing. .

Please locate this alleged thread in which you claim I and others abused you. You specifically mentioned the Hasidic movement of which I am a member as being the very ones who wished to impose a "Taliban-like" government on the Israelis. This is evil nonsense, and you never provided a shred of evidence to back it up.

Now if you are going to continue to insist that I was abusive to you on another thread, PRODUCE THAT THREAD or else stop shrieking abuse at me in this thread.

[Southern Federalist]

There is no "proposal" of any kind made in the lines you cite. Describing a problem is not the same thing as making a proposal.

The author clearly does not want groups actively hostile to the Jewish presence in the Middle East to take political control of Israel. Do you have a problem with that? I am fairly pro-immigration by FR standards, but even I would say that a political society has the right to make judgements about the immigration it can handle without losing its essential identity. Yet the fact remains that the author never calls for restricting non-Jewish immigration in this article.

The only proposals made by the author are the ones I identified. And he does in fact explicitly call educational reform "a more fundamental improvement of the situation" than his other proposals. I would say that that makes education his central proposal.

I don't see any use in arguments with obsessive people. Unless you can start dealing honestly with what the man actually said, rather than smearing him with insinuations about what you claim is "implied" in what he said, I will have no interest in continuing this exchange.

[Lizard_King]

Suffice it to say if you want an obvious instance of Orthodox offensiveness inquire regarding their control of marriages in Israel. Bluntly, unless you kiss their ass and fulfill THEIR requirements concerning Jewish marriage, you're out of luck."

Please, enlighten me as to how Orthodox Jews have changed laws, in Israel or Worcester (since you insist on personalizing the grievances), to make marriage more difficult. I actually can't claim much familiarity with Israeli marriage law; from my personal point of view *any* government regulation or sponsorship of marriage is wrong, so if there is any substance to your insinuations I would be happy to see them. I would be very surprised, however, to see enough evidence there for Israeli Orthodox to be considered equivalent to the Taliban

Am I just spouting off accusations without evidence or am I introducing releveant instances of Orthodox zealotry?

Both. Although I would hesitate to include the few actual events you point to under the category of relevancy to your "Like the Taliban" argument, as they are hardly indicative of general trends in the Orthodox community.

Somehow I doubt a reintroduction of those links would do you any good as dogmatic individuals such as yourself have an aversion to the truth.

Try me. If you can somehow construct a cohesive argument that Orthodox Jews are equivalent to the Taliban, I will be happy to read it. I have neither an aversion to the truth nor any particular adherence to dogma; I do, however, have an instinctive dislike of logical fallacies, which you apparently do not share.

Thats correct and I stand by that comment [comparing the Orthodox Jews directly to the Taliban].

Unfortunately, standing by a statement is miles away from rationally defending it. Good luck with that...

However the definition of flaming around here is commonly refering to what Mr. Robinson, you know the owner of FR, has expressly forbidden i.e. PERSONAL ATTACKS. Most grownups are capable of abiding by that rule...yadda yadda yadda

If you think the law of FR is so much on your side, then I leave it to you press that handy-dandy abuse button under any of my posts. If Mr Robinson decides that I have, in fact, been irrationally abusive, I will abide by his ruling. Otherwise, stop issuing empty threats, when you are well aware that you are treading that line between abuse and discourse far more closely than I.

The "faithful" have a poor track record of that.

For the record, I am an atheist classical liberal. Any variation of "faithful" that puts me in the same category as the esteemed Alouette must be expansive indeed.

However if you started ordering the less observant Jews around and condeming them for not achieving such a puritanical state than yourself, I'm doubtful you would have had such a pleasent time.

One of the more useful functions of religious conservatives in Western societies is that they set an extreme moral example, and provide a unique viewpoint for criticism of social mores. I respect their choice to live their lives as they do, and ignore their criticisms when I disagree. If you have some evidence of Orthodox COERCION of others into extreme social conservatism, I would be interested to hear it.

Well well well, a minute ago you were saying how squeaky clean the Orthodox in Israel were. Care to go a bit more in depth as to your reservations?

That is simply untrue. I stated in my very first post in this thread:

"I don't blame Alouette. Even the most principled and devout defender of his beliefs gets sick and tired of being attacked exclusively on the basis of anecdotal evidence and ad-hominem (Just Like The Taliban, yet Jewish!) attacks. I often think the Orthodox party does a grave disservice to their political goals by ignoring how important the mainenance of secular law even in Jewish state is, but that is a criticism of their strategy and approach to government, NOT of their existence, which appears to be that which you and your ideological bedfellows espouse."

I stand by that original statement and really felt no need until recently to restate it. I still think the burden of proof is on you to establish that your position of comparing them to the Taliban is anything but a despicable exaggeration of their flaws.

Yeah college professors are real fountains of wisdom. Its comforting to know that someone such as yourself is taking what they say to heart.

Ah, of course, imagine that...taking a stereotype and assuming it applies to every member of a group, how unusual. As your response to his statement is devoid of a rebuttal, it constitutes an acceptance of his words as true for the purpose of this discussion. Thank you and drive through...

The only reason I noted the source is to make clear that it was not my own insight, but rather something interesting that someone else said that was germane to the conversation. Ayn Rand spoke of similar things in her constant mistrust of those who use altruism to disguise their malignant purposes; I will give you the benefit of the doubt (for whatever it's worth) and assume that it is not out of malignancy that you claim such noble goals, but rather out of a misguided belief that feigning concern for the targets of your words lends gravity to your argument.

[TopQuark]

Yeah college professors are real fountains of wisdom.

I think that's a giveaway: you and I have been talking at length to an angry child. No regrets, but it appears that most of what was said went abobe his head. There is a chip on the shoulder, which he may still outgrow; a sad case, actually.

[rmlew]

I wrote:
"What is wrong with Israel maintaining a Jewish state. Are you against all nationalism, or have you subconsciously accepted PC Third-worldism?"
WITBL respnded
I'm opposed to the idea that we can stake out a piece of the Earth and say that it belongs to a certain group because of their religious affiliation. Given their history of oppression it is natural for Jews as a group to want a homeland. However, I don't think that having a history of obscene oppression is just foundation for a theory of property rights. I also don't buy notion that G_d gave the land to the Israelites. The question then becomes, who gets to live there and why?

So you are an anti-Zionist. OK.

Jews are not just a religion, but a people and a nation.
The proper name for us is B'nei Yisrael, or the children of Israel. You cannot seperate Israel from us. It is as much part of us as Denmark is to Danes and China is Chinese.
Jews have lived in Israel for 3400 years. There are communities that have been virtually unbroken for 2500 years.
Of course there are religious aspects. Many Jewish laws can only be applied in Israel. All over the world (except the Jewish world that is), Jews pray for the total reclamation of the land 3 times per day. We have done so for 1900 years.
The issue is not oppression or some random location. It is that there can be but one land.

I don't know what PC Third-worldism is, so I'm not sure whether I have accepted it subconsciously or consciously.
The belief that the so-called Third world peoples (essentially non-whites) are always victims who must be helped. It is racial Marxism.

[Tamodaleko]

excellent clarification bump

[KantianBurke]

As requested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/05/99/israel_elections/334795.stm

http://www.metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-51/reg/pork_feeds_jewish.htm

http://www.nonviolence.org/archivedsites/psreport/plural/

http://www.worldandi.com/specialreport/1987/september/Sa13468.htm

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/qrel11.htm

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/08092000/0010072.html

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/30/Opinion/Opinion.42520.html

Some highlights from the articles:

"Many ultra-Orthodox Jews consider the state of Israel an abomination because it is not based on Jewish law... Some of the smaller groups even regard Israel as an enemy because according to their interpretation of Jewish law only the Return of the Messiah near the end of time can lead to the creation of the true state of Israel."

"Despite our collective religious experience which kept our Jewish identity alive throughout 2,000 years of Diaspora, we have allowed narrow-minded fundamentalism to dominate the religious discourse in contemporary politics, with the result that many who in the past were simply apathetic toward religion have become antagonistic toward anything which even hints at the clerical or the theological. The country is, at the same time, more religious and more secular, and much more segregated between the two, than it was 20 years ago." (Good going guys! By acting like thugs, you've not only weakened Israel but have pushed many Jews any from the Torah.)

"Shopkeeper Alexander Rosonov said selling pork was a matter of principle. There is almost no difference between what the Communists did in Russia and what the ultra-Orthodox are doing here. Though the Communists never checked what I had on my plate," said the bemused shopkeeper who moved to Israel from St. Petersburg five years ago."

"Some secular Israelis fear that the increasing political clout of religious Jews poses a threat to democratic ideals, such as freedom of worship and separation of state and religion."

Secular Israelis have generally supported the idea that ultra-Orthodox Jews should feel free to practice their religion as they see fit. Israel, after all, was created as a homeland for Jews, many of whom came specifically for religious freedom. But as the ultra-Orthodox have grown, they have used their power on issues tied to religion, such as closing down streets on the Sabbath or diverting public money to religious institutions. Secular Israelis object.

When ultra-religious factions were trying to force Sabbath closure of Bar Ilan Street, a major Jerusalem thoroughfare, Mencher and other secular-leaning Israelis demonstrated to keep the street open. "A religious man at the demonstration said to me, 'It's too bad the Germans didn't finish you off at Auschwitz,' " Mencher said. "I think about leaving the city all the time; I would if it weren't for my practice."

Yehudit Channen, however, vows that her children will never serve in the military -- not even in a noncombat role. "It would be like passing a law that we had to eat pork," she said. "We wouldn't do it." Like her husband, she looks to her rabbi for guidance when voting. (She and and the Mullahs in Iran would have many complimentary things to say to each other regarding democratic governence and the defense of Israel I'm sure)

Regarding how "peaceful" the ultra religious are towards other Jews:

"At least twice this summer, during Shavuot and Tisha b'Av, Jews praying at the Western Wall in Jerusalem were physically attacked by ultra-Orthodox haredim."

"In the summer of 1986, dozens of bus shelters, worth more than half a million dollars, were burned down by ultra-Orthodox extremists because their walls exhibited "obscene" advertising posters. Other shelters were spray-painted. The spray-painters even attacked people waiting for buses. When police attempted to arrest the offenders, extremists from the Meah Shearim section of Jerusalem torched a police car and burned all the public trash cans in their neighborhood."

"Any car which drives into the heart of Mea Shearim on a Saturday has long been sure to get stoned."

"Jerusalem has turned into the religious hub, where a woman wearing a sleeveless blouse in the wrong neighborhood might be scolded or doused with ink."

When Rabin held office, the ultra-Orthodox weekly Hashavna (“The Week”) was used by its publisher, Asher Zuckerman, to wage a vicious crusade against the prime minister. The magazine regularly called Rabin “a Kapo,” “an anti-Semite,” “ruthless,” and “a pathological liar.” The weekly, which is read by close to 20 percent of the ultra-Orthodox community, published a symposium on the question of whether Rabin deserved to die and the appropriate means of executing him... A group of Orthodox rabbis gave religious sanction to the murder of Yitzhak Rabin.

Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, spiritual leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas, a key party in Prime Minister Barak’s ruling coalition, compared Education Minister Yossi Sarid, head of the leftist Meretz Party, to Satan and two other hated figures in the Scriptures. At a sermon during the festival of Purim, Rabbi Yosef said Mr. Sarid “is Amalek [described in the Bible as the sworn enemy of Israel], he is Satan…May his memory be wiped out. He must be uprooted from the seed of Israel.…Just as revenge was wrought on Haman, so it will be wrought on him.”

"In his new book, A Little Too Close to God, Jerusalem Report editor David Horovitz recalls that before the Rabin assassination he attended anti-Rabin rallies sponsored by Binyamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party that he describes in these words: “I felt as if I were among wild animals, vicious, angry predators craving flesh and scenting blood. There was elation in the anger, elation bred of the certainty of eventual success.” Now, he fears, this extremism is on the march once again."

Jewish activists, Juergensmeyer writes, “have…been convinced that their violent acts have been authorized as weapons in a divine warfare sanctioned by God. Dr. Baruch Goldstein’s massacre at the shrine of the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron in 1994 was described as a military act. (So did those who flew the planes in the WTC towers. But of course any insinuation that Ultra Orthodox extemism is part and parcel to the Taliban is foolish and derogatory no?)

Religious extremism manifests itself not only in opposition to the peace process, but in a refusal to permit genuine religious freedom for non-Orthodox forms of Judaism. In June, a Conservative synagogue in Jerusalem was set on fire. Yonathan Liebowitz, a spokesman for the Conservative movement, said witnesses reported seeing apparently religious men, wearing black velvet skullcaps, fleeing as the flames raged. The synagogue had previously been defaced with graffiti that labeled it a place unworthy of worship.

I could say much else but I think this indivdual, who unlike you actually has dealt with the religious zealots, sums it up best:"Yigal Yasinov, a Russian immigrant from a distinguished rabbinical family, left the ultra-Orthodox world to become an activist in the militantly secular Shinui party, a small but influential faction in parliament. "If we don't stop the ultra-Orthodox now, it will be too late. They want this country to be ruled by religious law. They want to turn it into Iran or Afghanistan. It's a battle between a future of democracy or a return to the dark ages of religious fanaticism," said Yasinov. "If they had guns, we would call them the Taliban. There is no difference, not in the way they act nor in their ideology."

[KantianBurke]

Regarding the institution of marriage in Israel, its quite simple really. The Ultra Orthodox control the issuance of marriages. Unless you jump through their religious and arbitrary hoops your marriage isn't recognized. And don't even think about a mixed marriage. Techincally plenty of folks that I know aren't "married." Its unnerving to imagine what they would do to the rest of Israel if they had more control over the bureacracy and every day people's lives.