The Free State Project: A Project for Idaho

Idaho Observer via Sierra Times ^ | 11/16/02 | Hari Heath

[Chancellor Palpatine]

They have a visceral hatred of government of any size, but blind hatred of government is thin gruel on which sustain a healthy, prosperous community.

Applause and cheers. Thank you.

They want the infrastructure that the prosperous society leaves behind, yet are incapable of creating it themselves. Their models won't work, because it fractures.

Think about the old west. When those communities start, they are perfect libertarian microcosms. Wild, wooly, lawless - places where decent people were concerned for their lives (actually, ghetto areas underserved by police are like this as well). As time would go on, things would coalesce, first with a local strongman, later the society would stabilize with law. Secure property, and reasonable public order followed.

[galt-jw]

please keep us up to date on this subject.

[u-89]

It seems, and perhaps we all can agree is that the "muscular Constitution" of which you speak is flexing its muscles too much. I think of the wieght lifting rooms in prisons. Enemies of society are incarcerated and during that time they bulk up and when they are released they are an even greater menace. Our government grows ever stronger and I do not believe that it will be shackled or sized down through either party at the federal level. Right here on FR there has been countless articles posted since the GOP took over congress on how the Pubs have spent more money than requested in proposed budgets. GOP chairmen have even taken to harsh punishments of rougue conservative congressmen who would tried to halt this profligate waste. Nor have they reigned in or punished wrong doing in various federal agencies of which they have oversight. Observation of human nature and common sense tells us that career pols will only seek to increase their power and influence. Term limits were a great idea when Dems were in control, how many Pubs favor them now? personaly I don't like term limits on the basis of liberty so the only way to control career pols would be to kill the benefit packages and retirement plans. What chance for passing a bill like that would we have? Recently I heard Bob Dornan on TV say that having served so long with these people on the hill that 90% wouldn't get anywhere near 150,000 a year in the private sector.

In short I am saying that the only hope for a limited governemnt would be at a state level. In theory there are more than enough conservatives, independents, libertarians and non party members in this country who could make a Free State work. From reading other threads I get the impression that you strongly dislike all things libertarian but I think that you paint with too broad a brush and unkind stereotypes drawn from a few outrageous examples (BTW, I am not a member of the LP, still a registered pub, for primary voting influence if nothing else). Using the half full/half empty glass analogy it seems that we are opposite on two issues. The chances of restoring liberty through the GOP on a federal level and the chances of the Free State way. I am pessimistic one way and optomistic the other and you seem to have the reverse opinons in each instance. No matter. It makes for interesting discussion.

[galt-jw]

dont feed the trolls.

[u-89]

Your law and order in the old west analogy is interesting. Think of the Kansas cattle towns at the end of the trails from Texas. When towns became "respectable" they didn't like the cowboys cutting loose on the other side of the tracks and got government to crack down on it and guess what? The cattlemen went elsewhere and these towns lost all the business the cattlemen brought with them which made the town in the first place. Not to say that we do not need some sort of regulation in society but there are unintended consequences of government actions against human nature. Look at prohibition and the rise of organized crime/corruption of law enforcement and the judiciary that resulted for a perfect example. The Soviets tried to create a "New Man" and that didn't work too well either.

[u-89]

dont feed the trolls.

sorry about that

[archy]

The idea of the FSP is going to grow by leaps and bounds.

Today a table at Denny's, next year two tables at Denny's

Would that be the same Denny's where Bush the First held his reelection ball in 1992 after one voter in five picked Ross Perot instead?

-archy-/-

[John Farson]

Odd you quote Mencken, yet you are opposed to efforts to restore a constitutionally limited goverment.

"The fact is that liberty, in any true sense, is a concept that lies quite beyond the reach of the inferior man's mind. He can imagine and even esteem, in his way, certain false forms of liberty - for example, the right to choose between two political mountebanks, and to yell for the more obviously dishonest - but the reality is incomprehensible to him. And no wonder, for genuine liberty demands of its votaries a quality he lacks completely, and that is courage. The man who loves it must be willing to fight for it; ... More, he must be able to endure it - an even more arduous business. Liberty means self-reliance, it means resolution, it means the capacity for doing without."
--H.L. Mencken
Notes on Democracy Part I, p.3 pp.44-5 (1926)

[blackie]

I like it !!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

Molon Labe !!

[Roscoe]

They want the infrastructure that the prosperous society leaves behind, yet are incapable of creating it themselves.

Political termites.

[claidheamh mor]

You lying imbecile.

[claidheamh mor]

http://www.cato.org
http://www.reason.org

And people still say libertarians don't have solutions? Morons...

[Roscoe]

And people still say libertarians don't have solutions?

Lemme know when they solve something.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

They talk a lot. And their squabbling is entertaining in a Jerry Springer sort of way.

[Roscoe]

http://www.self-gov.org/celebs/Springer.html

[exodus]

To: gcruse
"...Don't tell me that you think that in the absence of government there would be wonderful roads, civil commerce, and general civility and well being all around..."
# 34 by Chancellor Palpatine
**********************

What makes you think that these people are anarchists?

From what I read, they are just against socialist government, just as the mission statement on Free Republic's home page says that Freepers are against socialism.

[exodus]

Hello, Roscoe.

[Roscoe]

[Delphinium]

Believe me, true Idahoans have, could, and will survive fine without the help of Fema, or other government welfare. Just like true Idahoans that are making it here today in spite of all the plans, and programs imposed upon them by the Federal government. We would make it the same way a an individual makes it when his house burns down, or horse dies. When a persons truck breaks down they fix it. An individual can't get government help just because they suffer loss, or have a hardship. Those who can't survive without Federal help would have to leave.

[exodus]

To: archy
"...Real freedom is possible only in societies that are essentially made up of one race and oriented to the natural desires and values of their people and their heritage."
# 22 by home educate
**********************

Real freedom is only possible with the belief that all people have God-given rights, and under a system of written laws founded on the belief that all people are equally worthy to participate in their own government.

It's true that a person's heritage influences their thoughts and actions, but as long as they accept the concept of inalienable rights, heritage is not a problem, and race is not an issue.