Fluoride is a toxin, so ANY amount is too much. Those areas that DO have naturally occuring fluoride in their water supply DO also have children with statistically significant lower IQ and develop skeletal fluorsis.
To, well, calcium fluoride is, admittedly present in most water supplies, but it is OK because.....
While sodium silicofluoride is added to water supplies and that is bad.
Once again you try to throw a bunch of crap against the wall and hope at least some of it sticks. But your theory is based on a flawed premise, so all that comes after it is wrong. You say:
Since a solution of calcium fluoride will be limited to a maximum solubility of 16 ppm, there will ONLY be 16 ppm of fluoride ions available in blood if the solute is calcium fluoride. With a maximum solubility of 42,200 ppm for sodium fluoride, the concentration of fluoride ions available could increase to 42,200 ppm,
That, once again, clouds the issue that the level (ppm) is ALREADY ESTABLISHED in the water itself. The solubility information is great if you are trying to determine how much compound you want to add to a water supply to get the proper flouride level, but since we are dealing with supplies that the fluoride is already present and measured, your information is useless.
In addition, could you explain how you can get water with a fluoride concentration of 1 ppm and have it increase to 42,000 ppm? That makes no sense.
Well Tom, you do know how to play word games, I'll give you that much. Fluoride IS a toxin, and should be avoided if possible. Is that better? I certainly wouldn't want to ingest any more than what can NOT be avoided. So any more of a fluoride than that which can be AVOIDED IS too much, as health effects of low level exposure are unknown in SOME cases. Now that should be accurate, correct? You see though, low level exposure to fluoride HAS been shown to be unhealthy, and that is reflected in the numerous studies that I have referenced and linked.
Those areas that DO have naturally occuring fluoride in their water supply DO also have children with statistically significant lower IQ and develop skeletal fluorsis.
As far as health effects, it HAS been shown that there are a significant number of cases of dental fluorosis in areas with high levels of naturally occuring fluoride in the water. It is also likely that there is a higher rate of skeletal flurosis in those areas too, as if there's enough fluoride in the water to mottle teeth and cause dental fluorosis, then there's probably enough to cause skeletal fluorosis as well. That is probably why the EPA has set a limit of 4 ppm for naturally occuring water supplies, because as we know, the concentration COULD go up to 16 ppm if left unchecked. That's why they are SUPPOSED to defluoridate those water supplies if the level of fluoride exceeds that level. As far as IQ, again, I haven't been able to find anything that correlates that with naturally occuring fluoride where there are high levels, but I thought I had read that somewhere at one time. So for now, I'll just say there is no KNOWN correlation between IQ and naturally occuring fluoride.
But wait, there's more. Although those water systems with "naturally occuring fluoride" DON'T fluoridate their water, they ARE subject to leeching from irrigation and ground water (which itself can have levels of up to 100 ppm of fluoride). They are also subject to air pollution and spillage from drains. As such, they sometimes have BOTH sodium fluoride AND calcium fluoride, and may have higher levels of fluoride than 4 ppm of BOTH compounds.
To, well, calcium fluoride is, admittedly present in most water supplies, but it is OK because.....
Naturally occuring calcium fluoride is SAFER than sodium fluoride BECAUSE;
In solutions of calcium fluoride, the MAXIMUM concentration of fluoride ions is 16 ppm, whereas in solutions of sodium fluoride, the MAXIMUM concentration of fluoride ions is 42,200 ppm, roughly 1000 times more than the level that would cause immediate death in a average adult.
It is with the cumulative effect of ALL sources of fluorides that we ingest that in the case of sodium fluoride causes a problem, because it can and DOES reach levels higher than calcium fluoride would. As in the case of ground water referenced above, where it has been seen in levels up to 100 ppm, we know that is NOT calcium fluoride, as it can ONLY go up to 16 ppm fluoride ions.
While sodium silicofluoride is added to water supplies and that is bad.
And as per the chart in post 338, we see that in solutions of sodium fluosilicate, the concentrations of fluoride ions can reach 6,250 ppm. That's STILL obviously MUCH higher than the 16 ppm maximum solubility of 16 ppm for calcium fluoride.
Once again you try to throw a bunch of crap against the wall and hope at least some of it sticks. But your theory is based on a flawed premise, so all that comes after it is wrong.
It is obviously YOU that is flinging crap. And it is YOUR theory that is flawed.
You say:
Since a solution of calcium fluoride will be limited to a maximum solubility of 16 ppm, there will ONLY be 16 ppm of fluoride ions available in blood if the solute is calcium fluoride. With a maximum solubility of 42,200 ppm for sodium fluoride, the concentration of fluoride ions available could increase to 42,200 ppm,
Theoretically increase to that high of a level, yes.
That, once again, clouds the issue that the level (ppm) is ALREADY ESTABLISHED in the water itself. The solubility information is great if you are trying to determine how much compound you want to add to a water supply to get the proper flouride level, but since we are dealing with supplies that the fluoride is already present and measured, your information is useless.
In addition, could you explain how you can get water with a fluoride concentration of 1 ppm and have it increase to 42,000 ppm? That makes no sense.
You are forgetting (conveniently) the fact that people brush their teeth with fluoride toothpaste. The foods we eat contain fluoride, the juice, the soda, the beer, ANYTHING we consume consume effectively has fluoride. There is a CUMULATIVE effect, where toxic levels CAN be reached with artificial fluorides. With calcium fluoride, the MAXIMUM concentration is limited to 16 ppm.
From Total Daily Fluoride Intake
1977 "... Recent studies indicate that the total intake of fluoride is as high as 3 mg/day rather than the earlier figure of 1.5 mg/day, primarily because of increases in the estimated levels of fluoride in food. (1970) Balance data presented by Spencer also suggest a higher retention by bone, nearly 2 mg/day rather than the 0.2 mg/day indicated earlier. ... These findings are important . . . a retention of 2 mg/day would mean that an average individual would experience skeletal fluorosis after 40 yr, based on an accumulation of 10,000 ppm fluoride in bone ash." [phase 3 Crippling Skeletal Fluorosis] Drinking Water and Health, Safe Drinking Water Committee, National Academy of Sciences, NAS/NRC, 1977 p. 371-372As stated above, fluoride has a cululative effect, and builds up in both bones and tissues over time. There's more that just the forms of fluoride we've discussed. There's also (cryolite sodium aluminum fluoride), Na3AlF6, which is used as a pesticide in agriculture. It has HIGH concentrations in produce, and can have as much as 180 mg/kg in a head of lettuce...Fluorine Excretion and Balances in Adult Men -- intake @4-14 mg/day, absorption =94% -- 40% retained Trace Elements In Human and Animal Nutrition, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture (1987) p.378
1991 Estimated daily fluoride intake, adults in optimally fluoridated area: up to 6.6 mg/day .. in areas with 2 to 4 ppm fluoride in water: up to 7+ mg/day. Review of Fluoride Benefits and Risks, Department of Health and Human Services, February 1991 p17