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And SOME even recommend fluoride treatments. We now know that they pose unwarranted risks and provide little or no beneficial effect. SOME even used to sell snake oil, but it wasn't rather useful as we now understand.

Could you expand on this point? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Acceptable limits are set so as to define where a KNOWN toxic reaction will more than likely occur if that limit is exceeded. ANY amount of toxin is still more than one would WANT to consume. In my book, if I can AVOID a toxin, I avoid it.

NO. NO. NO! We consume "toxins" every day. Do you eat foods with salt in them? OF course you do. But chlorine is a toxin, yet I don't see anybody recommending we completely stop using salt.

Once again, I'm dealing with science, not hysteria. Show me a toxicologist that denies the axiom "the dose make the poison".

Do you support congress trying to lower the arsenic levels in water?

Although calcium fluoride may well be common in water, it is only in SOME areas where there are high concentrations.

And now you prove you know NOTHING about chemistry. When calcium fluoride, or scilicofluoride, or any other fluoride compound gets into water, the fluoride ion dissociates from the other compounds in the molecule. Therefore a fluoride ion from one compound is exactly the same as a fluoride ion from another compound.

You should study basic chemistry before you try to debate this stuff.

And the relation to fluoride in general remains unchanged, whereas the studies indicate that a high exposure to fluoride DOES in fact result in lower IQ.

Please, lets stick to normal levels of fluoride. I know leaving out fluoride poisoning cases VASTLY limits your argument, but uing those cases is like using chlorine poisoning deaths to ban table salt.

The fact of the matter is that fluorine is the 13th most common element on the planet. It is in practically ALL water supplies, and it is at or over the recommened limits in around 30-40% of the country. So there are tens of millions of people who have fluoride in their water, and have had it in their water since we got here. Why aren't they sick?

Then maybe I should help you refresh your memory.

Only after you take a remedial chemistry course.

And I should say, I've been on all the anti-fluoride sites. The reason I joined FR back in 99 was to counter some of these lies in a post I saw. So there's nothing you've posted that I haven't seen or debunked.

Could you expand on this point? I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Try taking a course in remedial English.

NO. NO. NO! We consume "toxins" every day.

Many of which we consume BECAUSE of people like you who think it's perfectly ok to dump POISONS into watersystems.

Do you eat foods with salt in them? OF course you do. But chlorine is a toxin, yet I don't see anybody recommending we completely stop using salt.

And that is BECAUSE NaCl is a necessary NUTRIENT. Although it does decompose into Na+ and Cl-, the sodium and chlorine are VITAL to our wellbeing and are needed to form electrolytes and are critical to body chemistry and functions. Any excess chlorine is easy passed through our bodies and excreted. Fluorine has NO nutritional value, and IS simply a toxin. It is NOT excreted, and due to its highly reactive nature, bonds with calcium in our bodies.

Once again, I'm dealing with science, not hysteria. Show me a toxicologist that denies the axiom "the dose make the poison".

You are a charlatan and a huckster. Your attempt to discredit the vast number of esteemed scientists, doctors, microbiologists, biophysicists, biochemists, and other highly respected individuals that have put forth evidence that fluoride IS a biohazard and should be avoided, is nothing more than a vain exercise in self-glorification and is unbelievably void of any rational argument.

The LESS toxin one consumes the BETTER. The levels of fluoride consumed by the average person in this country is WAY over what is acceptable, and DOES cause problems. Try reading the material that I have posted to you earlier, if you can even UNDERSTAND what it says.

Do you support congress trying to lower the arsenic levels in water?

If it's a matter of simply avoiding the DUMPING of arsenic into the water, of course.

And now you prove you know NOTHING about chemistry.

Oh, and how is that Mr. Wizard?

When calcium fluoride, or scilicofluoride, or any other fluoride compound gets into water, the fluoride ion dissociates from the other compounds in the molecule.

That IS true of fluorides, and that IS one of the problems with fluorides, as flourine ions are EASILY liberated from their ionic bond. That is what happens when you boil fluoridated water, the highly reactive fluorine ions liberated from the fluoride in the water bond to the aluminum in cookware to form the salt aluminum fluoride (AlF₃), which then contaminates the water and the food IN the water.

Therefore a fluoride ion from one compound is exactly the same as a fluoride ion from another compound.

Yes, but as it DOES easily bond with metals and then forms a compound, such as the compound formed as explained above, aluminum fluoride, it poses a threat when it passes the brain blood barrier. Once inside the brain, it liberates from the aluminum and the ALUMINUM bonds with NEURONS in the brain. The fluorine ion then travels out of the brain through the blood stream and bonds with calcium in the body, causing skeletal fluorosis.

You should study basic chemistry before you try to debate this stuff.

Bwahahaha. You've GOT to be kidding me. Your little lecture on fluorine ions did not coherently state anything. A fluorine ion is a fluorine ion, AND? And WHAT?

Chorine ions are not highly reactive, whereas FLUORINE IONS are. It is the fact that fluorine is THE most reactive element in the periodic table that makes it so dangerous. And that is why fluorides are so easily formed. In fact, during the uranium refinement process, fluorine gas is used to refine uranium ore. By subjecting uranium ore to the fluorine gas, the uranium ions are liberated from the ore forming uranium hexafluoride UF₆. That is why fluorine is one of the most hazardous elements known to man. It is used to create nerve gas, rat poison, and many pesticides. It has NO nutritional value.

It is in practically ALL water supplies, and it is at or over the recommened limits in around 30-40% of the country.

Why don't you try posting some link to that. IF that is true, it is most likely BECAUSE of fluoridation.

So there are tens of millions of people who have fluoride in their water, and have had it in their water since we got here. Why aren't they sick?

Try reading some of the links I provided earlier. Then tell me people aren't getting sick.

Only after you take a remedial chemistry course.

I'm surprised that you can even SPELL chemistry.

And I should say, I've been on all the anti-fluoride sites. The reason I joined FR back in 99 was to counter some of these lies in a post I saw.

WELL, that explains a few things...

So there's nothing you've posted that I haven't seen or debunked.

Oh, I'm sure you've SEEN some of this info alright. You HAVE NOT DEBUNKED it, although you HAVE jumped up and down, held your breath, and skipped all over the place...