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SMALLPOX AND FORCED VACCINATION: WHAT EVERY AMERICAN NEEDS TO KNOW
National Vaccine Information Center ^ | Winter 2002 | Barbara Loe Fisher, Editor

Posted on 11/16/2002 6:07:00 PM PST by FormerLurker

click here to read article


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To: Coleus; FormerLurker
What bothers me about this is, when they force us all to have this vaccine.. or anything else they choose to force on us. To go to the Dr and have him/her say they cannot treat us unless we have had the vaccine... that bothers me.

And I think that is a very predictable possibility.

These guys who go along with the administration like blind sheep... they bother me immensely. To not think this through.. to think anything the Bush administration does is ok.. that bothers me.

And there are those who control others' thoughts/opinions on this site by demeaning and name calling. It's getting pretty bad when a Republican who voted FOR Bush can't express any disagreement here.
301 posted on 11/19/2002 2:41:11 PM PST by frnewsjunkie
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To: theartfuldodger
Couldn't it also be true that the vaccine didn't do what they claim it does?

No. There is an abundance of evidence that the vaccine works. Also, look around you. Know anybody with smallpox? How do you think that happened? See the CDC's website for more info. Doubt that it will matter to you... or the rest of the anti-vaccination fringe.

Maybe you know it and are proud of it, but the people leading this "movement" are motiviated by one thing only... money. They want to be able to sue somebody because their kid has some problems, despite the fact that there is no proof that a vaccine was the cause. The author of this thread's article is a case-in-point... A woman in search of an OJ jury, to whom things like evidence and proof doesn't matter.

It's unrealistic to expect 200 million people to be vaccinated without there being some bad reactions. Hell, 200 million people can't get up and go to the toilet without some bad things happening. There are no guarantees when it comes to medicine. It's an imperfect science. Fortunately for our society, most people are able to accept life's uncertainties and imperfections without the need to sue.

PS. You should have listened to Rush today. He had some fun with the anti-vaccination fringe (you).

302 posted on 11/19/2002 3:10:05 PM PST by TheEngineer
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To: FormerLurker
BUMP
303 posted on 11/19/2002 3:16:14 PM PST by krodriguesdc
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To: FormerLurker
Nope, don't wear a mask there sink. It's SO easy just to brush your teeth without using fluoridated toothpaste. It's NOT so easy to avoid the water though.

You aren't much on accurate information, are you?

Fluoride is naturally occurring in most water supplies in this country, it always has. As a matter of fact, in many areas the concentration is many times the recommended level.

So where are the diseases in those areas? It seems to me that you could easily go out west (where the levels are usually highest) and find a few little towns who've been drinking high fluoride levels for a hundred years or so and show an increased level of problems.

But there aren't any. I wonder why?

304 posted on 11/19/2002 4:36:06 PM PST by TomB
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To: TomB
You aren't much on accurate information, are you?

Obviously you have another bone to pick here. This information, although controversial, is valid. Have you bothered yourself with actually READING any of the multitude of links that I've provided on the topic? Have you bothered reading as to WHO was making those statements? I you'd like, I could post a summary of links and references on the subject...




They are made by the top medical authorities in our nation based on the latest medical research.

 

 "The American Medical Association is NOT prepared to state that no harm will be done to any person by water fluoridation. The AMA has not carried out any research work, either long-term or short-term, regarding the possibility of any side effects." - Dr. Flanagan, Assistant Director of Environmental Health, American Medical Association. [actual letter]

"Based on data from the National Academy of Sciences, current levels of fluoride exposure in drinking water may cause arthritis in a substantial portion of the population long before they reach old age" -Dr. Robert Carton, former EPA Scientist.

"Fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons, probably because of their capacity to modify the metabolism of cells by changing the permeability of the cell membrane and by inhibiting certain enzyme systems." Journal of the American Medical Association, Sept 18, 1943

Segments of the population are unusually susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride. They include "postmenopausal women and elderly men, pregnant woman and their fetuses, people with deficiencies of calcium, magnesium and/or vitamin C, and people with cardiovascular and kidney problems." United States Public Health Service Report (ATSDR TP-91/17, pg. 112, Sec.2.7, April 1993)

"fluoride exposure, at levels that are experienced by a significant proportion of the population whose drinking water is fluoridated, may have adverse impacts on the developing brain." Greater Boston Physicians for Social Responsibility, May 2000

"It is now clear that fluoride is a potentially harmful substance when present in the drinking water in any amount." Dr. Simon Beisler, Chief of Urlogy, Roosevelt Hospital and Past President of the American Urological Association.

"The plain fact that fluorine is an insidious poison harmful, toxic and cumulative in its effects, even when ingested in minimal amounts, will remain unchanged no matter how many times it will be repeated in print that fluoridation of the water supply is 'safe.'" Dr. Ludgwig Grosse, Chief of Cancer Research, U.S. Veterans Administration.

In Harlem, NY, which has been fluoridated for 32 years, "There's more dental decay among these kids; we see the beginning of inflamed gingivitis in their mouths." American Dental Association, May 2000

"The CDA emphasizes that the need for fluoride depends on overall exposure, including place of residence, diet and oral health habits. and "The CDA recognizes the need to continue to monitor studies on fluoride and general health." Canadian Dental Association, May, 2000

"Fluoride has been shown to adversely effect the central nervous system, causing behavioral changes, increased hip fractures and reproduction problems." Natick Report Research Team
[Research Microbiologist, U.S. Army, Dr. B. J. Gallo, Environmental Chemist, J. Kupperschmidt Apollo Program Project Scientist, Dr. N.R. Mancuso, U.S. Army Natick Research Labs, A. Murray, Molecular Biologist, Dr. Strauss]

"I am appalled at the prospect of using water as a vehicle for drugs. Fluoride is a corrosive poison that will produce serious effects on a long range basis. Any attempt to use water this way is deplorable." - Dr. Charles Gordon Heyd, Past President of the American Medical Association.

"fluoridation ... it is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated and it has been perpetrated on more people than any other fraud has." - Dr. Professor Albert Schatz, (Microbiology), co-discoverer of Streptomycin, the cure for tuberculosis and numerous other bacterial infections.

Fluoride may be destroying our bones, our teeth and overall health.. it doesn't need to be added to our water and we may be taking unnecessary risks by doing so. - Dr. Hardy Limeback, a leading Canadian fluoride authority, former fluoride advocate and long-standing consultant to Canadian Dental Association. (read his rationale)

"The evidence against the safety of this public health policy keeps mounting; it is too compelling to ignore." - Dr. Phyllis Mullenix, Children's Hospital, Boston

"By 1983 I was thoroughly convinced that fluoridation caused more harm than good. I expressed the opinion that some of these children with dental fluorosis could, just possibly, have also suffered harm to their bones" - Dr. Colquhoun, former Principal Dental Officer for Auckland New Zealand. (read his rationale)

".. the evidence is quite convincing that the addition of sodium fluoride to the public water supply at one part per million is extremely deleterious to the human body". - Chief Justice John Flaherty, of the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania (presided over litigation involving fluoridation)

"This record is barren of any credible and reputable scientific epidemiological studies and/or analysis of statistical data which would support the Illinois Legislatures determination that fluoridation of the water supplies is both a safe and effective means of promoting public health." - Illinois Judge Ronald Niemann (presided over litigation involving fluoridation)

"the artificial fluoridation of public water supplies, such as contemplated by (Houston) City ordinance No. 80-2530 may cause or may contribute to the cause of cancer, genetic damage, intolerant reactions, and chronic toxicity, including dental mottling, in man; that the said artificial fluoridation may aggravate malnutrition and existing illnesses in man; and that the value of said artificial fluoridation is in doubt as to the reduction of tooth decay in man." - Texas Judge Anthony Farris (presided over litigation involving fluoridation)

"E.P.A. should act immediately to protect the public, not just on the cancer data, but on the evidence of bone fractures, arthritis, mutagenicity and other effects." - Dr. William Marcus, Senior Toxicologist at E.P.A.

In 1996, there were approximately 340,000 hospital admissions for hip fractures in the United States. Women sustain 75 percent-80 percent of all hip fractures. Medicare costs for hip fractures were estimated at $2.9 billion in 1991. Centers for Disease Control

"About one-half of the people with hip fractures end up in nursing homes, and in the year following the fracture, 20 per cent of them die." Harold Slavkin, Director of National Institute of Dental Research (JADA 1999)

"..fluoride damages bone even at levels added to public drinking water" American Journal of Epidemiology, October 1999

"Since 1990, five major epidemiological studies from three countries-the United States, United Kingdom and France-- showing a higher rate of hip fractures in fluoridated regions.." Australian & New Zealand Journal of Public Health, 1997 vol. 21 no. 24

"..significant increase in the risk of hip fracture in both men and women exposed to artificial fluoridation at 1 ppm." Journal of the American Medical Association, August 1992

"..the recommended "optimal" intake (a level that has yet to be determined scientifically)." Journal of the American Dental Association, Dec. 1995

"Water contains a number of substances that are undesirable, and fluorides are just one of them" stated Dr. F. A. Bull, State Dental Director of Wisconsin, speaking at the Fourth Annual Conference of State Dental Directors.

Hundreds of millions of dollars may be wasted annually on children's fluoride treatments by dentists. Typically given once or twice a year at routine checkups, the treatments do nothing to reduce cavities in kids, says a study of insurance records. Journal of Public Health Dentistry

In June of 1999, the Majority Chairman of the Environmental Resources Committee, Pennsylvania House of Representatives stated ".. there is no solid scientific or medical evidence to show that fluoridation is of any beneficial help to public health, safety or welfare."

The former editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association said he often received telephone calls from irate AMA members and letters from state medical societies and AMA officers "threatening political action against the editor and the Journal for publishing what offended them ideologically, or more likely imposed on (physicians') ability to earn money." (article) - Mr. Lundberg, editor of JAMA for 17 years

 "That the artificial fluoridation of public water supplies, such as is contemplated by [Houston] City Ordinance No. 80-2530, may cause or may contribute to the cause of cancer, genetic damage, intolerant reactions, and chronic toxicity, including dental mottling, in man; that the said artificial fluoridation may aggravate malnutrition and existing illnesses in man; and that the value of said artificial fluoridation is in doubt as to the reduction of tooth decay in man." - Judge Farris, presiding judge in a case involving the fluoridation of Houston's water.

The Washington Bureau editor of AD Impact, the monthly publication of the Academy of General Dentistry, wrote last year that supporters of fluoridation have had an "unwillingness to release any information that would cast fluorides in a negative light," and that organized dentistry has lost "its objectivity - the ability to consider varying viewpoints together with scientific data to reach a sensible conclusion."

"All of the organizations promoting water fluoridation agree that dental fluorosis, which is the first visible sign of systemic poisoning, increases with water fluoride levels." Dr. Kennedy, Past President of International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology and a practicing Dentist for 20 years.

These are strong, deliberate statements. They are made by the top medical authorities in our nation based on the latest medical research. Their voices are not alone, look at a partial list of dentists & medical doctors, Environmental Protection Agency Scientists and even a number of State Dental Directors are critical of the benefits.

 

Pdf file of this page

 

 


 

Esteemed Voices have, for 50 years, warned
the American public that water fluoridation
has dangerous long-term consequences to health

 
"I am appalled at the prospect of using water as a vehicle for drugs. Fluoride is a corrosive poison that will produce serious effects on a long range basis. Any attempt to use water this way is deplorable."
Dr. Charles Gordon Heyd,
Past President of the American Medical Association.


"fluoridation ... it is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated and it has been perpetrated on more people than any other fraud has. "
Professor Albert Schatz, Ph.D. (Microbiology),
Co-Discoverer of streptomycin

Join voices with the following medical professionals
who see fluoride as a health hazard.

William Marcus, Ph.D., D.A.B.T. (Toxicology), former U.S. EPA, Senior Science Advisor, Office of Drinking Water.*
Albert W. Burgstahler, PH.D. (Organic Chem, Environ. Fluoride)
Robert J. Carton, Ph.D. (Environ. Sciences and Risk Assessment).
Paul Connett, Ph.D. (Environmental Chemistry and Toxicology).
Richard Foulkes, M.D., fmr. Consult. to Health Minstr., BC, Canada

J. William Hirzy, Ph.D. (Chem and Risk Assess) Sr.VP, NFFE,EPA
Robert L. Isaacson, Ph.D. (Neurobehavioral Science). Dist. Prof.
Prof. David C. Kennedy, D.D.S., Inter. Acad. Oral Med. and Toxicology.
Harold D. Kletschka, M.D., F.A.C.S.(finr. Chair. of Bio-Medicus,Inc)
Lennart Krook, D.V.M., Ph.D. (Pathology) Cornell Univ.and NYSC.

Richard A. Kunin, MD., Pres., Soc. for Orthomolecular Hlth.Medicine
Gene W. Miller, Ph.D. (Biochemistry and Toxicology).
Phyllis Mullenix, Ph.D. (Pharmacology and Neurotoxicology)
John Colquhoun, BDS, MPhIL Ph.D., DipEd., Prin. Dent. Ofc. NZ.
John A.Yiamouyiannis, Ph.D. (Biochemistry)

A. K. Susheela, Ph.D., F.A.Sc., F.A.M.S. (Histocryochemistry)
Benedict J. Gallo, Ph.D.(Botany). Research Mcrobiologist.
Norman R. Mancuso,Ph.D. (Chemistry) Apollo Project Scientist.
Andrew Berna-Ificks, Hazardous Substance Engineer, Cal EPA.
Jason Kupperschmidt, B.C. (Chem. Engr)

Rudolph Ziegelbecker, Ph.D. (Phys.) Inst. of Environ Hlth.Austria
M.A. Krikker M.D., Hemochromatosis Found, Albany, N.Y.
Dean Burk, Ph.D. (Biochemistry) former Senior Chemist and
Director Cytochemistry Section, National Cancer Institute.
Harold Warner, Prof Of Research; Chief, Biomedical Engineer Div.

Sheila L. M. Gibson, M.D., B.Sc., M.F. Hom. (Research Physician)
James B. Patrick, Ph.D. (Chemistry) , Antibiotics Research.
I. R. B. Mann, Senior Lecturer in Environ. Studies, U. of Auckland.
Bruce J. Spittle, Ph.D., Psycho. Med., U. of Otago Med. Sch., NZ
George L. Waldbott, MD., fndr. Inter Soc for Fl. Res. and J. Fluoride

Alfred Taylor, Ph.D, Research Scientist, Clayton Fnd. Biochem. Inst.
Ludwik Gross, M.D, fmr Chief of Cancer Res. Vet. Admin, N.Y.
Dr. Daniel Zaskin, Chf. Diagnostician, Columbia Sch of Dental Surg.
Geoffrey E. Smith, L.D.S., R.C.S. Dental Surgeon.
Philip R- N. Sutton, D.D.Sc., L.D.S., F.R.A.C.D.S.

Brian A. Dementi~ Ph.D. (Biochemistry and Toxicology)
John P. Flaherty, Chief Justice, Supreme Court of Pennsylvania
Simon Beisler, M.D., Chief of Urology, Roosevelt Hosp. N.Y.
Fred Squier, M.D., Head of Oral Surgery, Lenox Hill Hosp. N.Y.
John Garlock, M.D., Consulting Surgeon, Mt. Sinai Hosp. N.Y.

Edgar A. Lawrence, M.D., Dir. of Medicine, Lenox Hill
Girard F. Oberrender, M.D., Dir. of Otolaryngology, Lenox Hill
Frederick B. Exner, M.D. Fellow of the Am. Coll. Of Radiology.
Charles C. Bass, M.D., Dean Emeritus, Tulane Univ. Med. Sch.
Alton Ochsner, M.D., head, Dept of Surgery, Tulane Univ. Med. Sch.

Alfred I Murray, M.S.T. (Chemistry).
Mark Diesendorf, Ph-D. (Mathematics).
John J. Miller, Ph.D. (Biochemistry)
Paul I-L Phillips, Ph.D. (Biochemistry)
Kaj Roholm, M.D., Ph.D. (Biochemistry)

Hubert A. Arnold, Ph.D. (Math) UCDavis
James W. Benfield, A.B., D.D.S., F.A.C.D.
Eugene Peterson, Ph.D. (Chem.Engr.) UCB.
Cornelius Steelink, Prof Erner. Chem.
John Thomson, Ph.D. (Biochemistry)

D. Skinner, B. Sc., MD. C.A.F.C.I.
Richard Marrus, Ph.D. (Physics) UCBerkely
Laura Nader, Ph.D. (Anthropology)UCB
D. W. Hanson, Ph.D. (Chem. Engr.)UCB
C. J. King, Ph.D. (Chem. Engr.)UCB

J. B. Neilands, Ph.D. (Biochemistry)UCB
Giovanni Ames, Ph.D. (Biochem.) UCB
John R. Lee, M.D. (Physician)
J. C. Smart, Ph-D. (Chemistry) UCB
Gerard F. Judd, Ph.D. (Chemistry)
Gerson Jacobs, MD.
Michael F. Ziff, D.D.S..
Harvey Petraborg, MD.

Robert I H. Mick, D.D.S. E. R- Cooper, M.D.
C. T. Betts, D.D.S.
I E. Waters, D.D.S.
Allen London, D.D.S.
Edward A. McLaughlin, M.D.

Philip E. Zafagna, M.D.
George W. Heard, D.D.S.
Charles Dillon, D.D.S., L.D.S.
S. Leslie A. Russell, D.M.D. (dentist)
Casimir R. Sheft, D.D.S.

Jonathan Forman, M.D.
Ross Pringle, D.D.S.
A. B. MacWhimiie, D.D.S.
A.C. Baumann, D.D.S.
Kirk Youngman, D.M.D.

L. A. Alesen, M.D.
Paul W. Sheeran, D.M.D.
Thomas F. Evans, D.D.S.
Robert Davis, D.D.S.
William I Filante, MD.

Joyal W. Taylor, D.D.S.
Michael Ohnstad, D.D.S.
Sheridan B. Manasen, D.D.S
Scott McAdoo, D.D.S.
Tony Lees, B.D.S. Dentl Surgn

Frederick W. Howe, D.D.S.
Ellsworth D. Foreman, D.M.D.
Robert D. Stephan, D.D.S.
Carl Mestman, D.D.S.
Hans Moolenburgh, M.D.

Peter Mansfield, M.D.
William F. Corell, M.D.
F. Logan Stanfield, M.D.
Julian Whitaker, MD.
Robert C. Atkins, M.D.

James A. Paar, M.D.
Kenneth H. Rudolph, M.D.
Jonathan Wright M.D.
John McDougall, MD.
Steven M. Rachlin, M.D.

John R. Lilliendahl, Jr. D.D.S.
Hal A. Huggins, D.D.S.
Herbert H. Robinson, D.D.S.
James P. Hammond, MD.
Philip Sukel, D.D.S.

Deloss E. Winkler, Ph.D. (Chem.)
Andrew Weil, M.D., Health Advocate
Thomas M. DeStefimo, A.B., D.D.S.
Harlee S.Strauss, Ph.D. (Molecular Biology)
Geoffrey Dobbs, Ph.D. (Botony) A.R.C.S.

Frederick I. Scott, B.E., M.S., Chem. Engr.
Thomas D. Hinesly, Prof. of Soil Ecology
Roy E. Hanford, MD. (Phys. and Surgeon)
Stanley Monteith, MD., ret. Ortho. Surgeon.
G. A. Samotjoi, Ph.D. (Chemistry) UCB

Henry Cheung, Ph.D. (Chem. Engr.)Alexis T Bell, Ph.D. (Chem. Engr.)UCB

* Above affiliations are listed for identifications purposes only and do not imply institution endorsement

Some related links:

The Fluoride Controversy

Respected Medical Professionals and Scientists are warning that water fluoridation has dangerous long-term health consequences.


Fluoride is naturally occurring in most water supplies in this country, it always has. As a matter of fact, in many areas the concentration is many times the recommended level.

Fluoride is a toxin, so ANY amount is too much. Those areas that DO have naturally occuring fluoride in their water supply DO also have children with statistically significant lower IQ and develop skeletal fluorsis.

Fluoride's Neurological Effects: studies show there may be grave implications for Alzheimers, Dementia, Attention Deficit Disorder, reduced IQ in children

EFFECT OF HIGH-FLUORIDE WATER ON INTELLIGENCE IN CHILDREN

FLUORIDE AND INTELLIGENCE

Effect of a High Fluoride Water Supply on Children's Intelligence

So where are the diseases in those areas? It seems to me that you could easily go out west (where the levels are usually highest) and find a few little towns who've been drinking high fluoride levels for a hundred years or so and show an increased level of problems.

See the links provided above.

But there aren't any. I wonder why?

Obviously there are. I wonder why you don't bother checking up on what you're talking about before you post?

305 posted on 11/19/2002 5:22:47 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: TheEngineer
I think the point here TheEngineer is that the CDC recommendations MUST be followed, ie. those identified as being at high risk of an adverse reaction should only be vaccinated upon EXPOSURE to the smallpox virus, or if an actual attack has occured in that locale. Everyone else SHOULD vaccinate.
306 posted on 11/19/2002 5:25:37 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Fluoride is a toxin, so ANY amount is too much.

Arsenic is a toxin, yet it is also considered by some to be an essential nutirent. Here is an article from the latest Discover magazine that discusses hormesis.

I defy you to find a quote from any well known toxicologist that say ANY amount of a toxin is too much.

As toxicologists say; "The dose makes the poison".

Those areas that DO have naturally occuring fluoride in their water supply DO also have children with statistically significant lower IQ and develop skeletal fluorsis.

Can you give an example? Of course not, because, as I said MOST of the country has naturally occurring fluoride in the water.

I looked at your links and they don't give any examples of this.

So how do you propose getting one of the most common elements out of ground water?

Obviously there are. I wonder why you don't bother checking up on what you're talking about before you post?

I'm a dentist. I've forgotten more on this subject than you'll ever know.

307 posted on 11/19/2002 5:35:54 PM PST by TomB
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To: TomB
Arsenic is a toxin, yet it is also considered by some to be an essential nutirent. Here is an article from the latest Discover magazine that discusses hormesis.

And SOME even recommend fluoride treatments. We now know that they pose unwarranted risks and provide little or no beneficial effect. SOME even used to sell snake oil, but it wasn't rather useful as we now understand.

I defy you to find a quote from any well known toxicologist that say ANY amount of a toxin is too much.

Acceptable limits are set so as to define where a KNOWN toxic reaction will more than likely occur if that limit is exceeded. ANY amount of toxin is still more than one would WANT to consume. In my book, if I can AVOID a toxin, I avoid it.

Can you give an example? Of course not, because, as I said MOST of the country has naturally occurring fluoride in the water.

Although calcium fluoride may well be common in water, it is only in SOME areas where there are high concentrations. And the relation to fluoride in general remains unchanged, whereas the studies indicate that a high exposure to fluoride DOES in fact result in lower IQ.

In relation to naturally occuring fluoride, I'll give you some links on that...

From Fluoridation 101

At the turn of the last century, many residents of the Southwest US had unusually ugly teeth. They called it "Colorado Brown Stain." Dental researchers sought to discover the source of this disfiguring tooth malformation. The culprit was high levels of fluoride in the water. Since these ugly teeth resisted decay, well-meaning but misguided dentists assumed the fluoride also caused the teeth to resist decay. However, what they overlooked is significant. The water supply was also very high in calcium and magnesium, essential nutrients we now know makes teeth strong.

What is Fluoride and Why You Won't Want to Use It

I'm a dentist. I've forgotten more on this subject than you'll ever know.

Then maybe I should help you refresh your memory.

Just How Safe is Flouride?

Central Nervous System Damage from Fluorides

Fluorine -- Reduced IQ in Children - Attention Deficit Disorder

The Fluoride Debate

Safe Water - Safe for Everyone?

Dangers of Fluoride

308 posted on 11/19/2002 6:58:39 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: woofie

SMALLPOX 
A Deadly Recipe 
By WENDY ORENT 

Wendy Orent writes frequently on infectious disease and 
is currently writing a book about plague. 
Thanks for that post by the way. Very informative..
309 posted on 11/19/2002 8:29:36 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: frnewsjunkie; Coleus
What bothers me about this is, when they force us all to have this vaccine.. or anything else they choose to force on us. To go to the Dr and have him/her say they cannot treat us unless we have had the vaccine... that bothers me.

It all comes down to the question of whether or not the vaccine is safe. If is IS safe, then it makes sense to innoculate the population (or the vast majority), as then it would make NO sense for a hostile country or terrorist to attempt to utilize that sort of attack. Smallpox IS a very contageous disease, so it would make sense to immunize against it.

In fact, there was a good post that I've only gotten around to reading today that you should probably look into.

I'll post a link to it below.

post 53

Then again, there ARE esteemed voices that DO oppose vaccination. I'll provide some links to that as well..

HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES

DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION

WHO SMALLPOX ERADICATION SUCCESS RECONSIDERED--Raymond Obosawin MD

So now I'm confused. I've just found those links and they appear to conflict with what I've read earlier. Now WHAT the heck is going on here?

310 posted on 11/19/2002 8:45:06 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: woofie
I DO find it a bit disturbing that we are relying on the word of a Russian bioweapons expert as to the success story of the smallpox vaccine in light of REAL historical evidence that there were actually more smallpox deaths in those that HAD been vaccinated against the disease than those who hadn't.
311 posted on 11/19/2002 8:56:34 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker; sinkspur
What he wants to know if you read THE NEW AMERICAN a magazine published by the John Birch Society. Obviously he has some axe to grind with the JBS--a pro life, pro family, pro gun and anti UN, anti-tax and anti big-government organization.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/
http://www.jbs.org/
http://www.getusout.org/
http://www.trimonline.org/
http://www.aobs-store.com/

My aunt used to be a bircher back in the 60's and 70's when it was more popular, they are very active within the republican party and work to elect republicans, they are conservatives who are also active in various pro-life and pro-second amendment organizations, they are against the Federal Reserve system and the UN.

Some, who have no idea what goes on will criticize the organization. None have facts which bake up their statements.
312 posted on 11/19/2002 9:17:53 PM PST by Coleus
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To: FormerLurker
The "exclusive recipe" of smallpox tested on Vozrazhdenie Island produced no ordinary disease. The young technician who first fell ill had been vaccinated. So had her brother, whom she infected when she returned to Aralsk. Both suffered, as Zelicoff determined, severe illness. And both were contagious. Although they survived, a young woman who visited them did not. She died of hemorrhagic smallpox, the most terrible form of the disease, which causes uncontrollable bleeding and rapid death. Two infants also died of hemorrhagic smallpox. None of the three had been vaccinated. The vaccinated patients did not die, but they came down with moderately severe disease.

Dr.Zelicoff is a senior scientist at Sandia Labs in Albuquerque, NM

313 posted on 11/19/2002 9:20:13 PM PST by woofie
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To: Coleus; sinkspur
Some, who have no idea what goes on will criticize the organization. None have facts which bake up their statements.

Yep,half baked

314 posted on 11/19/2002 9:22:54 PM PST by woofie
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To: woofie
yes miss crabtree
315 posted on 11/19/2002 9:36:29 PM PST by Coleus
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To: FormerLurker
http://www.mercola.com/2000/nov/19/vaccine_mandate_opposition.htm

http://www.909shot.com/

http://www.mercola.com/2002/apr/17/autism_epidemic.htm
316 posted on 11/19/2002 9:39:30 PM PST by Coleus
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To: woofie
Dr.Zelicoff is a senior scientist at Sandia Labs in Albuquerque, NM

If you read some of the recent material that I have just found, that is NOT a comforting thought.

317 posted on 11/19/2002 9:51:24 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
Here is a book which depicts the horrors of Fluoride in one of its' chapters.

http://www.parable.com/cbn/item_0929173422.htm

http://www.cbn.org/CBNNews/News/021118a.asp

http://www.cbn.org/cbnnews%2Fnews%2F020604g%2Easp

318 posted on 11/19/2002 10:40:36 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
Did you read my links that show how the smallpox vaccine actually CAUSES a lower resistance to smallpox, resulting in substantially MORE fatalities from the disease?
319 posted on 11/19/2002 10:46:38 PM PST by FormerLurker
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To: woofie
For one, Zelicoff doesn't like polygraphs...

The Ethics of Medical Determinations regarding polygraphs

320 posted on 11/19/2002 10:51:09 PM PST by FormerLurker
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