Peggy Noonen: "Them" [one group for whom liberals have no tolerance at all]

Wall Street Journal ^ | Nov 15, 2002 | Peggy Noonen

[The Raven]

There's a lot to think about this week--the rise of Nancy Pelosi, the meaning of the Republican triumph--but my thoughts keep tugging toward a group of people who are abused, ostracized and facing a cold winter. It's not right what we do to them, and we should pay attention.

[Junior]

One might make the claim that forcing the smoker outside is what causes lost productivity; when smokers were allowed to smoke at their desks they could smoke and work at the same time.

I'm not a smoker. I can't stand the smell of the stuff, but I also believe in individual rights and I see the government's crusade against smoking as a test case for protecting those rights.

I do like drinking -- a lot -- and I can already see the writing on the wall for alcohol use. I'll stand by my smoking brethren in an effort to protect my rights to tipple.

[Skywalk]

Like I said, I have no problem with a ventilated room set aside for smokers. This WOULD help cut down in the time it takes to go down to the front of the building for the larger office buildings. My point was that I would NOT welcome smoking back into the office environment without that restriction.

As for my friends house, it was late, people(except 1) were drunk and that was my only option. It's merely a comment on how disgusting it can be.

Everyone was so sure that I was for banning smoking from all American life just because I criticized Noonan's article and smoking itself. I just think people jumped the gun, because sometimes on FR we're too willing to want to paint people as "us" or "them." Im allowed to differ a bit without being attacked(not saying you did GailA)

[borisbob69]

Thanks Junior...I don't drink but I'm against any punitive treatment for those who do. Did you hear this morning that someplace is proposing an additional 10% tax on alcohol? Didn't catch the whole piece on FOX news Channel...but it looks like you and BIG FAT are the next targets!

[Tokhtamish]

Or maybe banning smokers makes them feel safe, like they'll never die.

Once again, Peggy nails it. Something I notice about godless people is an utter terror of old age and death. Recall, indeed, that baby boomers in youth never had any respect for age. They frankly despised it. Look at Hugh Hefner, 75 going on 25. So they shudder at anything that reminds them of mortality. Death has become what they won't talk about in front of children (Remember that great scene in Terms of Endearment where Debra Winger's character is disgusted with the New York sophisticates who freely discuss their affairs and abortions over lunch but are shocked into silence when she mentions her cancer ?).

To be a Christian is to understand that there is an eternal and death is nothing to live in terror of.

Earlier this week, I saw an obit in the NYT that mentioned a woman's lifelong heavy smoking in the first sentence. Because of it her life was cut short by emphysema at the tender age of 84.

[borisbob69]

Great post...I remember once hearing a comedy bit about smoking cutting 10 years off your lifespan.

The thing that struck me as funny was the ending question: "Yeah, but have you stopped to consider which 10 years that is?"

[johnny7]

My boss claims he smells alcohol on me once a month.

I never drink at work or before. I shower daily but the topic keeps coming up.

I think it's a co-worker who starts this kind of crap.

I've been told that a small hole was in my shirt and somebody complained... when other people were wearing cut-off pants to work. JMHO.

Take care... trust no one at work.

[GeekDejure]

Three cheers for the brilliance of Peggy Noonen . . .

Pall Mall . . . Pall Mall . . . Pall Mall !!!

[laredo44]

5-10, 180 lbs, in relatively decent shape.

Physically, perhaps. Where you need work is the mental side.

[laredo44]

I certainly don't want to spend all day in a closed space surrounded by smoke

Then don't. Hopefully, you're not going to assert that some secret police march you to such a space and force you to remain there, are you?

[Skywalk]

And why is that? Because I don't think smokers are some victimized ethnic group? That I think that they should have set aside areas where they smoke?

Is it because I think their habit is disgusting and makes it difficult for me to breathe comfortably?

What is it exactly that I have to work on, sir?

[Skywalk]

I know my posts have been lengthy, so I won't get on you for not reading them fully, but I made it clear that I was criticizing the idea of smokers being allowed back in the office environment WITHOUT set-aside, ventilated rooms.

Please don't attempt to portray me as someone so dumb that I would walk into the smoker's break room just to complain.

[laredo44]

My dad smoked, and I begged him when I was a child to stop. Know what he finally started to do? He'd go out on the enclosed porch and open a window or sit on the steps.

It appears to me your dad was ten times the man you are.

[Skywalk]

What, he's a saint because he finally stopped subjecting his family to smoke? I'm glad he did, but he waited far too long. If a 5 year old child looks into your eyes and tells you to stop smoking around him, why not listen? It's not like the smoking Nazis had gotten to me. I was honestly bothered by it.

He stopped coughing and clearing his sinuses to the point of annoyance when he cut back too. But I guess this makes him an even greater man?

I fail to see, though, how the act of smoking makes one a better man than I. Once again, because it's a disgusting habit and stinks up everything in the vicinity, that makes me a Nazi? I'm stating the facts.

[RWG]

They accept death and illness as part of the equation...which also includes my picking up part of the tab for their health care costs one way or another. But maybe that isn't true anymore, wasn't that what the big tobacco settlement was all about, yeah, that's it.

[Grit]

Shooom! [*Moving hand over head*]

tm & Skywalk both receive an 'F' for reading comprehension.

[Grit]

Good Morning, puffies!

[Skywalk]

Not at all. I took umbrage with some of her assertions. I definitely think it's a stretch to say that smokers are somehow "conservative" thinkers, or that this is the essence of their "deal." What a ridiculous idea that addicts are somehow the quintessential conservatives.

Any other substance that we'd be saying this about? "OH yes, alcoholics are by nature conservative in their outlook. Yes, junkies make that trade because they enjoy their heroin and know they won't live forever. Crankheads, yeah they know their teeth are going to fall out, but that's the conservative view of life that they have"

NO, I'm not saying smoking is as bad as crank or heroin abuse, just drawing the analogy.

It can go to other things as well --- the morbidly obese, promiscuous people who LOVE sex and know they won't live forever, etc etc.

I took issue with SOME of the article, I understand and agree that we shouldn't treat smokers like they're Hitler, but beyond that I don't have to kowtow to her just because her name is Noonan and we on FR are not Health Nazis.

[RJCogburn]

the last public place you can go to be a dropout, a nonconformist, refusenik, a time waster, a bohemian, a hider from reality, a bum, a rebel, a bore, a heathen. The last public place in which you can really wallow in your own and others' human messiness. The last place where you can still take part in that great American tradition, leaving the teeming marching soldiers of capitalism outside to go inside, quit the race

She is speaking of the Senate, right?

[borisbob69]

LMAO!!!

[laredo44]

and we on FR are not Health Nazis

Yet.

Illuminate me. How does your position on smoking differ from that of a "Health Nazi"?