Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: scripter
You know I'm a Christian and you know I take that very seriously. My life revolves around my relationship with Christ and part of that means I find lying rather reprehensible.

This is precisely the disillusioning thing about arguing with creationists. It's not pretty and there's no glossing it over.

Presumably on His blessing, you have the right to pretend that your objections are about science when they're obviously not. You have the right to pretend that you don't understand why your arguments are wrong, so you can keep trolling for suckers with them again and again and again. You have the right to ignore anything inconvenient and focus only upon what you imagine helps you. You have the right to pretend not to have assumed any of the preceding rights.

Very disillusioning. Faith in things unseen isn't good for everybody.

503 posted on 11/19/2002 12:48:07 PM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 499 | View Replies ]


To: VadeRetro
You know I'm a Christian and you know I take that very seriously. My life revolves around my relationship with Christ and part of that means I find lying rather reprehensible.

This is precisely the disillusioning thing about arguing with creationists. It's not pretty and there's no glossing it over.

Everybody who disagrees with you is a liar or dumb.

Presumably on His blessing, you have the right to pretend that your objections are about science when they're obviously not.

Because you disagree you resort to ad homenim.

You have the right to pretend that you don't understand why your arguments are wrong, so you can keep trolling for suckers with them again and again and again.

I have the right to be objective and think for myself. You on the other hand demand everybody think like you do.

You have the right to ignore anything inconvenient and focus only upon what you imagine helps you.

Healthy disagreement is good and I encourage it. You on the other hand think anybody who disagrees with you is dumb or lying and resort to attacking the person.

Grow up VadeRetro, grow up.

504 posted on 11/19/2002 1:28:59 PM PST by scripter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro
From the bibliography:

14. David P. Mindell, Michael D. Sorenson, and Derek E. Dimcheff, “Multiple independent origins of mitchondrial gene order in birds,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 95 (1998): 10693-10697.

The genetic information possessed by mitochondria, cell organelles with their own small complement of DNA (in a circular chromosome coding for 37 proteins, usually abbreviated as “mtDNA”), has been widely viewed as a good marker of phylogeny: the historical branching pattern that links organisms. In this study, however, David Mindell of the University of Michigan and his colleagues found that the specific order of mtDNA in birds “has had multiple independent originations...based on sampling of 137 species representing 13 traditionally recognized orders.” This suggests that -- contrary to expectations -- patterns such as gene order may be under functional constraints. If so, mtDNA may be subject to the same kind of historically misleading similarities that affect other types of systematic data. “Our finding of multiple independent origins for a particular mtDNA gene order among diverse birds,” conclude Mindell et al., “and findings by others of convergent evolution for mt sequence duplications in snakes and lizards...suggests that some constraints on gene order mutation are in effect” (p. 10696). This may considerably complicate the use of mtDNA as a historical marker in evolutionary studies.

What from the above misrepresents the authors views?

505 posted on 11/19/2002 1:36:59 PM PST by scripter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro; scripter; Heartlander
The bible says we should bless those who curse you, pray for those who despitefully use you and say all manner of evil falsely against you, so that is what we should do, pray for his well being, body soul and spirit. Will y'all agree with me that Vade's body will feel better tonight in the name of Jesus?

Nobody is 'lying' here. 1 The scientists are committed evolutionists. 2 They discoverd some facts that could be interpreted to undermine the case for evolution. 3 IDers reported on their results. 4 They quickly said that they never meant for those results to be used to challenge the naturalistic hypothesis that so dominates their funding.

Whether they meant it to be used that way or not, the FACTS they discoverd stand on their own. They may have a different INTERPRETAION of those facts. Having a different interpretation of the facts is not lying.

For example, a racist Doctor in the 1930s may find through skull examinations that the average brain capacity of white and black people is virtually identical. Non-racist people could use that as evidence that blacks can be just as intelligent as whites and are entitled to the same treatment. The racist doctor could then come out and say "I never expected my findings to be used to justify equal rights for the colored". It does not matter how the doctor feels about his discovery. The facts of his discovery can undermine how he feels about it.
512 posted on 11/19/2002 3:13:41 PM PST by Ahban
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro
Presumably on His blessing, you have the right to pretend that your objections are about science when they're obviously not.

Aaaah Vade the mind reader! Funny how all evolutionists (and all leftists, Clintonites, Communists, etc.) seem to be able to read the hearts of men they have not even met! Makes one wonder what you are doing on these threads if you can really read minds. Such a wonderful ability could be used far more fruitfully in other places.

The above is a long way of saying Vade, that your 'refutation' is just a plain slime because as usual you cannot honestly refute what your opponent has said so you make it personal and then use your non-existent mind reading powers to slime him.

533 posted on 11/20/2002 5:50:35 AM PST by gore3000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro
Have you ever heard of Francis Schaeffer..."Escape From Reason"
601 posted on 11/20/2002 8:03:35 PM PST by thelastonestanding
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

To: VadeRetro
"This is precisely the disillusioning thing about arguing with creationists. It's not pretty and there's no glossing it over."

What are you saying? Who is doing the glossing over?

602 posted on 11/20/2002 8:20:03 PM PST by thelastonestanding
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson