The Democrats stole two Senate seats--and still it wasn't enough ~ WSJ.

The Wall Street Journal. editorial page ^ | November 14, 2002 | The Wall Street Journal. Editorial Board

[Tallguy]

Lets see. Nixon went with out the recount and won the White House four years later.

It was 8 years later, not 4. Nixon lost to Kennedy in '60; then beat Humphrey in '68. In between he narrowly lost the Californina governer's race ('62?) to Edmund Brown (Jerry's Dad). He followed the California loss with that famous statement about "not having Richard Nixon to kick around anymore." Fact is, Nixon's political career appeared to many observers to be over by '62.

[Coop]

Senate voter turnout was up 27% statewide for this year's close contest compared with 1998, but in Shannon County turnout increased by 89%. Again, no other county in the state showed comparable turnout increases. Shannon County is largely Indian country, home to the Oglala Sioux nation, and is heavily Democratic. But Mr. Thune managed to receive only nine more votes there than did Mr. Daschle's opponent in 1998, notwithstanding the much larger turnout.

Mr. New points out that this is just a 4% increase in GOP votes over 1998. In the other three South Dakota counties where Indians constitute more than two-thirds of the population, Mr. Thune gained between 23% and 43% more votes than the GOP candidate in 1998. The Oglala Sioux would seem to give new meaning to the phrase "bloc voting."

A follow-up to our discussion from a previous thread.

[Interesting Times]

ping.

[diotima]

Danke!

[Tallguy]

What happens when the FBI finds sufficient fraud to overturn the results?

I don't think that a court can overturn a certified election that isn't being formally contested. If the FBI were to find substantial evidence of vote fraud by the Dems AND could prove that this fraud was decisive, perhaps the US Senate could vote to vacate the seat. South Dakota would then have to stage a special election to fill the vacancy.

[Mudboy Slim]

"I think Fund has nailed it - Thune figures that in heavily Republican SD, he'll have his shot in the future, so it's not worth "sullying" himself in a recount catfight now. He probably wants to avoid looking like an Al Gore "Sore Loserman."

"I think this is correct analysis also."

Perhaps...however, I believe the recount--and VoteFraud investigation--will go on despite Thune's protestations and Thune shall be seated in the Senate in January 2003.

Just my humble opinion...MUD

[sphinx]

An INVESTIGATION continues. If proof of fraudulence surfaces (very diffficult to find, but there are 30 DOJ investigators on the reservations) then that is a whole different story.

I agree. Fraud can take several forms. Some are easier to catch than others. If dead people in Shannon County voted in numbers greater than Johnson's statewide margin, I think it is very likely that a judge would order a new election. However, I doubt that happened.

One thing I've not seen is how many of the Shannon County votes were cast at the polls and how many were absentee. One of the things to check is the signature of voters at the polling places versus a verified signature taken by investigators.

If most of the votes came in absentee, one can still do a signature check. However, my guess on absentees is that Democrat operatives simply sat down with people, ensured that they voted "correctly," and then had them sign the envelope. That would be hard to prove unless someone talks. It's also possible, if ballot security was loose, for the envelopes to be opened and the votes switched after the fact. That would also be hard to prove.

[SauronOfMordor]

The state of South Dakota has 30 agents assigned to this case. That's a little much for just Red Earth Whatshername.

If the result is a high-profile investigation that sends a stream of people to prison over the next two years, you can expect Dashole to have difficulty in recruiting people to help with vote fraud in the next election. Bush probably thinks that Dashole is the better target

[Truth29]

Thune sullied himself by not demanding a recount and appearing to be another appeaser.

[Gritty]

The best way to stop voter fraud is to make sure that we have Republicans AT EVERY VOTER PRECINCT

This would be a great step in the right direction.

However, much more needs to be done.

1. Get rid of Motor Votor. It's a license (sic) to steal elections.

2. Institute ID verification of every votor, and a system to assure he only votes once.

3. Massive cleanups need to be done on the registration rolls, eliminating dead people, moved people, false people and otherwise ineligible people.

4. Voter fraud needs to be resolutely investigated and prosecuted with heavy fines and jail time penalties.

5. Ongoing registration needs to be closely monitored and the voter rolls finalized well before the actual election, perhaps 30 days before to allow proper eligible voter printouts which may be checked by in advance.

6. Get rid of wholesale absentee balloting and make it the very seldom exception instead of the rule.

7. Have a paper trail for every ballot cast.

Most of these problems can be addressed at the federal level for federal elections. The result will be cleaner elections at all levels.

[Aegedius]

The recount would have been handled by both Democrats and Republicans. The Florida recounts showed everyone that Democrats are willing to cheat, while Republicans aren't.
Therefore, Johnson would have gained votes in the recount. You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

[SD Badlands]

As a Thune supporter and contributor, I could have accepted his decision to not ask for a recount if he would have made some strong statements about the rampant voter fraud and that South Dakotans need to take back their election process. Instead, he gave us some watered-down political posturing for his next campaign. I thought I was supporting a man of conviction. I was just supporting another politician.

[Honcho]

I just don't understand why Mr. Thune and the GOP are so passive on the SD election results.


Let's face it, we've got the Dems on the run at this point. I think all Republicans should be pointing out that Thune has been graceful and if I were him, any quote that press got from me would include "...because after speaking to memebers of my party, we don't want to put the people of South Dakota through what the people of Florida had to go through in 2000 and what the people of Alabama are going through right now."


Can there be any better example of the difference between the GOP and Dems than South Dakota and Alabama?

[Miss Marple]

It is not his place to make acusations at this time. Doing so would taint the findings of the investigation and make it look partisan.

I repeat, patience, patience, patience!!

[uncommonsense]

An INVESTIGATION continues. If proof of fraudulence surfaces (very difficult to find, but there are 30 DOJ investigators on the reservations) then that is a whole different story.

Bingo. Let the Feds do their job and put some people in jail. It'll take about a year of investigations. That will put us right at campaign time with some very compelling reasons to get the Repub vote out, and the Rats will be under a microscope. This will put a chill on people who are considering taking $10 to vote for a Rat. Then, we get rid of Dashole and all of his seniority.

[SD Badlands]

The political landscape can change immensely in two years. Thune is not a lock in '04. Do you think the reservations are going to change their voting pattern in '04? If you think that Johnson mobilized the reservations, what do you think they'll do for Daschle?

[Samwise]

Maybe they will try to get their revenge by unseating Daschle in two years. That would be the best revenge.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. :)

[uncommonsense]

He is almost certain to take D'assoles seat in 2004, in fact it is unlikely he will even be challenged for it.

Yes, then spend the next 2 years raising up another Repub candidate to unseat Mr. Fraud - Johnson. We get 2 for the price of 1!

[shilohsvictory]

if it's only about winning (next time) then there is nothing worth winning

You are so right. The big assumption here is that everything will be the same two years from now (an eternity in politics) and that Tom Daschle and Tim Johnson are the same candidate (they are not). Standing on principle is always the right thing to do ...in season and out of season. Mr. Thune is actually a bit selfish in all of this because he has allowed one more variation of nationwide vote fraud to go unchallenged.

[Hildy]

So easy for you to say. Since Thune was handpicked, don't you think perhaps his decision came from "higher up?" also?