[mrsmith]

Enough about you- let's talk about me.

Well, I'm doing okay.

I've had trouble with a flat tire and took it in to be repaired and guess what? It wouldn't leak at the garage!
They said the "fixaflat" stuff I used was probably holding.
LOL! Well it hadn't been working but of course it would when I didn't want it to!
Isn't that interesting?

I'll tell you more- about me- next time we chat!

[agenda_express]

Start here:

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
http://www.strike-the-root.com/columns/bommarito/bommarito11.html
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28084

[VRWC_minion]

Are you looking at classical liberalisim or what is currently passing as liberalism ?

In any case, if I were you I would seek out David Horowitz's books and writings. He went through the same path as you and it would seem to me that he would be the best place to start.

[GOPJ]

Donozark is right: "Marx. Lenin. Ho. Ans soon to-be-dead, Castro" Liberals haven't had a new idea in almost 40 years. There was a time (before it was known which ideas worked and which didn't) that their ideas were cutting edge. Some of the good ones are still with us. They made a contribution.

Here's the problem: Power. Power in and of itself is not evil. To accomplish any good in life you must have power. The point where it becomes corrupted is when you've accomplished your goal, but don't want to give up the power. At that point it's power for power's sake. And that's the start of the corruption of power. It's what happened to the democrats.

When democrats enacted what they had that was good, they didn't come up with new ideas to replace the ones that didn't work, and they didn't want to give up the power. Hence, we got the modern democrat party. Tactics, lies, thuggery, shallow thinking, name calling, empty, and morally bankrupt. It's a shame.

Read the liberal classics, enjoy them for what they are now: the history of mostly failed ideas.

[slimer]

Here, this ought to keep you occupied for awhile.

Liberalism

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Liberals want government to replace God and, true to their fear of competition, outlaw God and religion in the process. Therefore, go to the source of true liberal ideas, the New Testament. What is more liberal than the admonition to "Hate the sin but love the sinner."

Unfortunately, when the left decided to replace God they failed miserably, instead becoming the Antichrist.

[exit82]

Hello--and welcome to Free Republic.

No doubt the many posts you received already have given you much to cogitate over. That's one of the best things about FR--ask a question and you definitely will get answers.

Although an occasional "flame" may come your way, you will find good hearted people here who really care about America and want to preserve the freedoms that make this country the best place on earth.

You will find many who will help you, and many who will challenge your thought process as well. That's part of the fun.

Since you joined today, we are allowed to call you a "newbie". So, newbie,glad to have you aboard.

[avg_freeper]

I would highly suggest
"The Metaphysical Club: A Story of Ideas in America" by Louis Menand

This work chronicles the shift in national thought that occurred after the Civil War up to the end of the First World War. Louis describes how that era formed the philosophies of individuals like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., William James, Charles Pierce, and John Dewy.

You'll be introduced to such characters as Eugene Debs an instigator in the Pullman Strikes and Jane Addams who lectured that antagonism, war, even small arguments are never necessary.

Not exactly a book about "great liberal thinkers" but you'll be left with a good idea as to how this train of thought and others began in America.

[strela]

So because, the democrats don't seem to be willing to answer this question, I'd like to put it forth to you: Where is their stockpile of substance and ideas? From where does it flow.

[agooga]

Thanks for the flood of quick responses from everyone. I am very impressed with the quality of messages.

I feel a little bit like Charlton Heston at the end of "Planet of the Apes" when Dr. Zaius tells him: "Don't go looking- you may not like what you find..."

I followed the post that linked back to the DU and read all of their responses too. I was fascinated actually to read how many people there believed that this was some kind of a stunt to start a flame war- or whatever else they were concerned with. Most people were HIGHLY skeptical that I was who I claim to be: just an honest joe, ex-democrat cum libertarian, trying to give the left an honest hearing for my own interests.

And I'm not a Bill Maher libertarian either, let's get that straightened out right now. I walk the walk. I am probably more fiscally conservative than even 90% of the folks here on FR. I want to see an end to ALL government programs not directly outlined in the Constitution and essentially adding to the defense of our nation. But I also believe in legalization of all drugs, gay "marriage," and very strictly defined use of governmental powers to surveil, arrest and detain.

In all honesty, I don't ever expect to vote for another democrat as long as there is breath left in my body, with the only exception being an attempt to "fire" an absolutely immoral and/or corrupt republican or libertarian.

But that doesn't mean that I don't care to know the strengths of their arguments.

I was astounded at the scope of the thinkers and writers that you all have presented me- and I'm actually going to take the time to select some of them and delve into their work. What this will accomplish- who knows? As I said- I have been a democrat for 32 years (I am 36 now) and I never really KNEW what I was believing in or fighting for.

"To understand via the heart is not to understand." Michel Eyquem de Montaigne

I have become politically conscious now, perhaps with a little less "heart" but with certainly much more "mind." Arguments for or against an issue now only resonate with me if they are pragmatic, not just feel-good.

I was shocked to read one DU poster actually say something to the effect of "we don't need great thinkers, our ideology comes from ourselves." That seems to indicate a state of anarchy where one can simply claim that his own personalized ideology must be equal to all others, equally good, equally valid, equally important.

Such a world would be one where moral equivalency reigns. Perhaps such a world where a US Senator can deplore his President from the soil of a brutal dictator. Perhaps this is our world now.

I have already learned much from this little excersize, and I want to thank everyone so far for these sometimes challenging comments.

As for the DU: I have petitioned to have my posting privilages restored so I can at least convey to the folks over there that I am not a FR "stooge" merely attempting to get their panties in a bunch.

I am not holding my breath.

JP

[tm22721]

Where is their stockpile of substance and ideas?

It died a fiery death in the forests of Minnesota about three weeks ago.

BUMP

[tm22721]

Those who are on the left side or middle of the road usually end up as roadkill.

BUMP

[tacticalogic]

Honestly, I was only vaguely aware of the Free Republic until I went onto the DU site. Apparently there is a flame war between your two sites and they are extremely paranoid of any "FReepers" posioning their water.

Don't confuse poisoning the water with diluting the poison.

So because, the democrats don't seem to be willing to answer this question, I'd like to put it forth to you: Where is their stockpile of substance and ideas? From where does it flow.

The local terminology is "Clymer".

[sweetliberty]

"great minds of the political left"

That's too easy. So I will temper my sentiments by simply saying, "lots of luck." If you find any let us know.

Welcome to Free Republic.

[sweetliberty]

"before I could actually even post my message, I received a message from the DU saying that my posting privilages had been revoked! I had been banned before I could even seek their honest council."

That's gotta be some kind of a record even for the "oh so sensitive" types over there.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

The Democratic party "left" true/classical liberal and conservative causes long ago. Maybe as far back as the original break away, and demostratively by 1913.

For their great thinkers you must read the drivel espoused by Marx, Lenin, Stalin, etc.

It's been said that a picture is worth 1000 words. I submit the following as representive.

The longer you study them, the more you will come to realize it's signifigance.

[parsifal]

Well, for me, I like to read the "Nation" to keep in perspective. I also find Auntie Pinko over at that bad place to be a very good, thoughtful writer. As far as "famous" "big name" leftists/liberal sorts, I enjoy George Orwell. His "Collected Essays" [four volumes] are very readable and help distinguish the good socialists from the bad socialists. Also, Aristotle in his "Nickelodean Ethics" [did I spell that right?] wrote some good things in favor of a more communitarian approach. A young dude wrote a book, "Common Things" [I think that was the name] a few years ago that was good and readable. I'll try to find his name for you.

parsy the helpful freeper.

[hosepipe]

Stop, Look, Listen(urh read).....
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It's not easy to take the democrat out of the party BUT it is damned near impossible to take the democrat out of the democrat.