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To: ApesForEvolution
If you think the defunding of the IRS will survive markup in the congressional lawmaking process you are naive.

Again a couple of points, HR 2525 recommends repealing the 16th amemdment but that is FAR different than repealing the 16th amendment. My original point holds, given the makeup of congress and the composition of state goverments, what leads you toi believe that the rats and RINO's would go along with repealing the 16th amendment? For all the Pollyanna posts by ancient geezer, principled, Cheif and others, no one has said how and when the 16th amendment would actually be repealed. The language in hr 2525 and $4 will get you a cup of latte at Starbucks.

Again in EVERY country that has instituted a NRST the Income tax came back. As a conservative I look at reality and what History teaches us.

One more question, Why is it that there are democrat congressmen sponsoring HR2525 but no Dempcrat has ever been favor of the Forbes/Armey Flat Tax????? WHat do you think??? are there actually socailist who want smaller goverment???? I have my doubts.
80 posted on 11/13/2002 9:24:05 AM PST by Leto
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To: Leto; ApesForEvolution

are there actually socailist who want smaller goverment???? I have my doubts.

So do I, however, the NRST answers the socialist's arguments about treatment of the poor by assuring everyone is rebated the tax payment for the poverty level of consumption. Even a socialist has a hard time turning their backs on the economic advantages of the NRST to every one including their own constituencies.

All legal residents will receive a FCA equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services. The FCA will be paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the monthly FCA will be determined by the government's Poverty Level for a particular family size, multiplied by the tax rate.

Every year, the Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] determine the "poverty level" for each family size.

The 2001 "FairTax" Family Consumption Allowance Figures

Family Size

HHS Poverty Level

Annual FCA

Monthly FCA

One

$8,590

$1,976

$165

Two

$17,180

$3,951

$329

Three

$20,200

$4,646

$387

Four

$23,220

$5,341

$445

Five

$26,240

$6,035

$503

Six

$29,260

$6,730

$561

Seven

$32,280

$7,424

$619

Eight

$35,300

$8,119

$677

1) Federal Register: February 16, 2001, Pages 10695-10697).

[ The monthly FCA for each adult is .23 * (HSS poverty level for a single person)/12 to assure no marriage penalty due to the manner in which the poverty level is dependant on family size. The monthly FCA for each child is .23 * (the incremental increase of HSS poverty level for a family with one child over no child) ] A. Geezer

A family of four, for example, could spend $23,220 per year free of tax because they will have received over the course of the year rebates totaling $5,341. $5,341 is the amount of sales tax paid on $23,220 in expenditures. A family spending double the "poverty level" or $46,440 per year will effectively pay tax on only half of their spending and, therefore, have an effective tax rate of 11 ½ percent or half the FairTax rate.

The beauty of the FairTax is that you can control how much you pay in taxes. If you happen to save, invest or spend a portion on used [previously taxed] items, you can get your effective tax rate below 9%.

H.R.2525 "The FairTax Act

Not only does every family receive a FCA based on family size, not income, but they will also receive 100% of their paycheck:

Fedup Smith makes $39K per year...once the FairTax is the law of the land he will receive an instant increase in pay of $200.00 per week. Since he has a family of four, he will receive a FCA of $445 per month, for a total of $1,305.00 additional income per month that he can do with as he sees fit .


Protecting the Poor from the Tax

A common assumption about the NRST is that it is naturally regressive, since lower income individuals spend a greater percentage of their income in any given year on consumption of necessities. Because a sales tax is an altogether different paradigm of taxation, any judgment on the equity of the tax must be accompanied by a different analysis of regressivity.

To examine how a national retail sales tax could address such concerns, a number of issues should be broached. First and foremost, taxing income at a graduated rate is not the only means of making a tax system progressive. Moreover, a tax on income, no matter how steeply graduated, does not necessarily make an income tax progressive. Even if progressivity is measured by the common standard of "ability to pay," the income tax is imposed only on productive labor and the return to capital and not on wealth. An income tax does not tax consumption of older accumulated capital, whereas a sales tax does.

Equally important, using taxable income as the basis to determine progressivity is necessarily based on a year-to-year analysis where the ability to pay is measured as a function of income per unit of time. Consumption over the life of a taxpayer is in many respects a better measurement of the ability to pay taxes. Because people's incomes fluctuate throughout their lives, the lifetime application of a sales tax is much less regressive than it would appear to be when examining a cross-section of taxpayers in any given year. Since all income is earned for the purpose of eventual consumption, under a national retail sales tax, the taxpayer can defer taxation by saving his income. But he cannot forever avoid the tax.

In any case, an NRST plan can be made progressive through a rebate mechanism that would shelter low-income people from paying the tax. One manner in which the NRST could be made less regressive would be to exempt certain necessities--such as food and clothing--from the tax. That approach would exempt, however, the most expensive food (lobster and caviar) and the most expensive clothing ($1,000 designer suits). It is a very inefficient means of providing tax relief to lower and middle income Americans and would necessitate a much higher overall rate. A more neutral and less distortive approach is to simply provide each family a level of consumption free of tax by providing a rebate of the tax on expenditures up to the poverty level.

The rebate could work as follows: A family consumption refund would be established for each household at an amount equal to the sales tax rate times the poverty level. The poverty level is defined by the Department of Health and Human Services guidelines and should be raised by the sales tax rate.

The family consumption allowance approach has several effects. First, it makes the sales tax applicable only to consumption beyond the necessities of life. Second, it makes the tax in effect progressive, not only because it is based on consumption, a better index of true ability to pay, but because--if one wants to continue to view progressivity through an income tax lens--it entirely exempts lower income workers. Third, unlike most state taxes, it does not undertake the complex and politicized task of determining what to tax and what to exempt, thereby minimizing administrative and compliance questions and economic distortions.

The 23 percent NRST plan would have a highly beneficial impact on the U.S. economy and raise the standard of living of the American public. The tax compliance costs borne by our economy would fall sharply. And the degree of intrusiveness of the tax system in our lives would decline greatly. Once set free from the burdens of compliance with the current system and the punitive tax rates imposed on work, savings, and investment, the United States will become a more productive and more prosperous republic. A national retail sales tax is more compatible with the principles of a free society than any other alternative tax system.

81 Posted on 03/21/2000 12:48:00 PST by CHIEF negotiator


84 posted on 11/13/2002 10:19:08 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Leto; ApesForEvolution

in EVERY country that has instituted a NRST the Income tax came back. As a conservative I look at reality and what History teaches us.

Since you are a student of History, you will provide us with the example of even one nation that has instituted an NRST such of the like of HR2525, which kills all predecding national income & payroll taxes and replaces them with a single rate single stage tax at the retail point of sale.

Good luck, there is no such example. You statement is non-sequiter and meaningless.

87 posted on 11/13/2002 10:25:30 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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