State Coalition Approves Internet Sales Tax Plan (The Greedy Hand At Work!)

Washington (com)Post ^ | 11/12/2002 | Brian Krebs

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Under the proposed legislation (and in some states already) a grandmother selling an old toaster on eBay has to charge sales tax to another individual and file with the state. This is the absurdity of this proposed law. It will turn individuals into criminals (because they won't realize they have to file) and make the filing of sales taxes a nightmare for the small business owner. If it passes, I will talk to my attorney and accountant and decide if it's better to contract my business or just shut it down and move to the islands in the Carribbean. I'm about taxed to death and the idiots who don't think so never looked at the fact that alot of us are getting clipped at a 60% plus rate when you factor in all of the state and local taxes and fees on top of the federal nonsense.

[TopQuark]

that taxation policies will create "fairness" (your words not mine) As I said, it is hard to conduct a discussion with someone who does not bother or cannot read and yet decides to paint issues with a broad brush.

You can have the last word if you wish.

Best of luck in your business.

[steve-b]

The absence of taxation on internet hurts small businessman with brick and mortar shops.

Brick and mortar shops use local utilities, fire and police protection, etc. at the point of sale. An internet business isn't using any of these things at the point of the mouse click. Thus, the difference in tax treatment is perfectly fair.

A real-estate tax, charging both the brick and mortar shop and the internet business warehouse at their actual locations where they use local services, would be legitimate, however.

[ffrancone]

I'm pleased to say Governor Owens of Colorado has consistently imposed this tax.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Broad brush???? What you are looking at is a microeconomic issue. Since you obviously have never owned or created a successful business, it's apparent that you believe that taxation is the cure to all inequalities or that you believe that there should be a "level playing field" in the business world. B.S. If Microsoft had played by all the rules, they would not dominate the industry. Under your idealism, Packard would still be making cars, Hallicrafters televisions, and we would still be using the internet at 9600 baud. Business is pure Darwinism; the strong survive and prosper, innovation creates strength, and the dissolution of unsuccessful enterprises is part of the natural order. The Chrysler bailout was a boondoggle and violated the way the business world actually works. It also violates the premises of all macroeconomic theory which yes, I studied profusely in college. If you honestly think that the government is the ultimate solution to all economic and social injustice, then you my friend are the narrow minded one. There is not broad brush. It's hardcore reality. The fact that you want businesses to be preserved or given a "fair" playing field demonstrates you lack the concept of absolute capitalism. Here is your quote again:

" The absence of taxation on internet hurts small businessman with brick and mortar shops."

No. What hurts the businessman with brick and mortar shops is a lack of innovation and shortsightedness, period. Someone is always looking to come along and do something better and more profitably. The internet has allowed thousands of enterprising souls to do this without the burden of the "brick and mortar shops" you speak about.

Your other key quote:

"That is both unfair and unproductive (creates allocative distortions)."

Unfair? Progress is unfair??????? Efficiency is unfair? The fact that I've put 3 competitors out of business in my market is unfair? Too bad. That's the price they paid for trying to stick to an extinct business model.

Unproductive? Bunk. It's much more productive to find better business models across the economic scale than it is to continue to do business the same way. The last word is that there are no allocative distortions as you propose. In reality, there is an inherent efficiency of the market which will eventually catch up to my business if I do not continue to innovate and increase my profit margins. Under your two statements, the telegraph would still be the primary mode of communications because it would be government's duty to preserve it as the only accepted mode of communication. The introduction of additional taxation will only have the effect of driving businesses like mine to do what the American public does not understand; relocate overseas and sell into the U.S. to escape the tax entanglements and regulatory environment. I don't have to live here to run an internet business, but it is much more practical. At some point when my profit margin is reduced, then I will either close down, create a new business or relocate to Bermuda or another tax friendly nation. The workers in this nation are screwing themselves out of their jobs depending on the social engineering abilities of the government to solve all of their problems. The creation of a higher tax base will only add to their problems. The final word is that I can only assume based on your statements that you never have owned or created a business. You should try it some time.

[palmer]

I supposed the logic is this: If you walked into one of their stores up the street and purchased the same item, you'd pay State sales tax.

Your logic is correct and it's unconstitutional for a State to tax commerce in another State. The States may try to argue that the transaction takes place on the buyer's computer and is therefore taxable in the buyer's State, or they may perform "use" tax collection for other States, but there will always be States who don't go along with either charade.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Maybe I am in the minority...I am young at heart, but don't consider myself a kid. I can see how college-age people (and those on both immediate sides) would use file sharing software exclusively for new music.

[Recovering_Democrat]

Thanks, Nuke, for making sense from a "real life" perspective. I've engaged the same arguments with Top Quark on this thread, but have been hamstrung because I do not have the first person experience a business owner can provide.

[aruanan]

What one needs to do is to introduce an internet tax and reduce the current tax liability.

No, what one needs to do is to eliminate the current taxes on brick and mortar operations.

[TopQuark]

No, what one needs to do is to eliminate the current taxes on brick and mortar operations. That's it? Just get rid of taxes? So easy, Aruanan. And what will pay for the military? Your voluntary donations?

I just love simplicity of your soluton. Why did not I think of that?

[aruanan]

Since when the hell has any government EVER reduced the tax level AFTER a new tax has been intorduced???? We are still paying a telephone excise tax that was introduced in 1898 to pay for the Spanish-American War!!!!!!

Yeah, remember when short-haul rail users were bitching about the disparity between long-haul and short-haul rates? The "solution" was to raise the long-haul rates to match the short-haul. And then when people developed trucking to undercut the overpriced rail shipping, the rail companies bitched. The "solution" was to subject trucking to the authority of the rail commission which then increased rates and limited the number of companies (and their trucks) that could do business. The same is true for taxi service.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Apparently neither does him or her. This is a real life threat to the new economy that the demorats and pubbies profess to love so much. Now that times are tough in D.C. and on the state level, they are looking for ways to extort more of our hard earned money out of our pockets. The fallacy that "businesses do not pay taxes" is not entirely true. Someone owns that business and if 40% of my personal income was not being eaten away by the federal and state governments, I would have the incentive to grow my business instead of looking for ways to protect my income.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

And so the problem grows. I know alot of people are not going to beleive this, but there was a nation which did not have an income tax and the methods of taxation were just fees on certain items and documents and tariffs on imported goods for over a century. That government worked fine with that as a tax base. Now instead of that same government reducing services, it increases the taxes on the citizenry in every conceviable manner they can create. It's a shame too. Government's job is not to become a massive social experiment or social engineer. I guess that will never get through the thick skulls on any board totally.

[Quick Shot]

Most shows now have a tax collector on site. Must have a resale number to start. In some cases you must pay up front an estimate. They don't kid around....

[ffrancone]

oops. imposed=opposed.

[Gorzaloon]

Most shows now have a tax collector on site. Must have a resale number to start. In some cases you must pay up front an estimate. They don't kid around....

I am not surprised they finally wised up! A nice show full of big ticket items like that would seem irresistable! Seems to have taken them a while, though.