School teaches pupils 'Baa, baa white sheep'

Ananova ^ | November 12, 2002

[TXBubba]

My opinion is the opposite. I think folks here are giving it the racial connotation that is not there and then claiming the others have removed it for being racially suggestive. I simply think the teacher is changing the word black to different adjectives to increase the word recognition etc. Believe it or not, and I know it is hard, not EVERY thing is changed to be PC. I really really really know that is hard to believe some times.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

"In the example of baa, baa, black sheep - alternative words can include white, noisy, happy or sad.

How bout "CLONED LIBERAL BASTAGE !"

[stanz]

I am not in favor of changing nursery rhymes just because some social scientist thinks it should be. It's just plain stupid. (I wish Bill O'Reilly could opine.)

[Peter Libra]

The chances are, particularly in my native country, that this is political correctness. Another jibe at being white. Sort of like the teachers who isolate a child with blonde hair and blue eyes. They then tell the other kids to ignore the unfortunate child for one day, so that they will all know what discrimation is.

Now to get down to brass tacks. In the British Army of yesteryear, the lads would hear someone currying favour with a superior- usually a non-com. They would then sing in a quiet moment, part of this nursery rhyme.

Yes,sir, yes,sir , Three bags full

He Snitch (teacher)gets a politically correct medal for this one. He should have the kids play this game. How many words can you find that rhyme with my name?.

I can think of one at once.

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

As Mr. Bird said: "The problem with changing these sorts of things is that it creates cultural illiterates."

and

"Likewise, we all share common learning experiences which allow us to communicate within the same context. The words "black sheep" have a definitive connotation that helps us communicate. If you eliminate, or alter, these common phrases, communication ends up breaking down."

I agree with Mr. Bird 100%. Why teach a traditional nursery rhyme (or anything else) incorrectly? Imagine these kids in the future -- on Jeopardy, or taking a quiz, or taking a bet. They will miss the question, miss the answer, and lose the bet. There are any number of reasons why they should learn the correct version instead of the incorrect one (not to mention just learning it correctly for its own sake). "Baa baa black sheep" also has an alliterative quality which "baa baa white sheep" doesn't have.

[jocon307]

"...we all share common learning experiences which allow us to communicate within the same context. The words "black sheep" have a definitive connotation that helps us communicate. If you eliminate, or alter, these common phrases, communication ends up breaking down."


You sound very smart, Mr. Bird. I don't know what black sheep meant originaly, as this rhyme must be very old, I guess I always assumed it meant, well, nothing actually! But I guess it may have some meaning, and what of that old TV show "Black Sheep Squadron" or whatever it was called, recently being re-run on History TV, some Freepers must know of this.

But for the most part, your post reminds me of what my mom once told me about folks who do simultaneous translations for places like the United Nations, etc. and how they must be truly and culturally fluent, just knowing all the words wasn't enough. It's easy to convey the meaning of even the most expensive $25.00 word but if someone were to say "That's just a Mother Gooose story" you really need to be culturally fluent in both languages to convey the meaning of the thing said.

[TLI]

BIG Boyington bump!

http://www.aero-web.org/history/aviators/boyngton.htm

[Pookie Me]

And since I'm not a great composer I change the words to common songs.

My understanding was that most of these nursery rhymes came from England, where children were taught their history through the rhymes.
Not that our children are learning anything these days..

Pookie & ME

[Dianna]

During the Black Death, victims were often wrapped in black shrouds. Thus the fact that the black sheep had "three bags full" was not good news for his master, his dame, or the lttle boy who lived in the lane.

Are you serious? I'm going to pretend I never heard that and the stupid song really IS about shearing sheep.

[Mr. Bird]

.. I understand the term "black sheep" in a phrase but I don't think this rhyme has any tie to that phrase.

I agree, but I'm assuming the same morons who are changing the nursery rhyme will also be averse to using the traditional phrase "black sheep" to mean an outcast or similar individual.